Lasagne Mafia - Game over
- Thread starter TheWeakGuy48_
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The fact that he's taking a meta read from one medium and applying it to another. I don't think that's a fair accusation to be making. Of course, as I expressed earlier, it doesn't outright make him scum, but it's not an applicable argument and to actually follow through with a vote behind it is not fair to the player you're voting.
My mind is always in the space of fairness.
It's not part of my objective! That's why I said that the game has nothing to do with my behavior there. I've explained myself on this multiple times and I don't think there's anything more I can say on it that I haven't said already.
It's not part of your objective to defend someone from being lynched for an illogical reason? Don't you want lynches that make sense because you don't want to mislynch?
If they were just being voted since people didn't like them and I felt it was a bullying scenario or something then I'd probably defend them even if they were town and I was mafia
Where is this question going though?
I think that is where that question was going.
Now that you've said it, I suppose that's true. I hadn't thought about putting into words, and I guess I kind of thought that it went without saying that everyone wanted that.
Except you showed no signs of wanting that because you said it was something you just felt compelled to do and even said it wasn't part of your objective, and now you're saying you assumed it went without saying that you wanted that?
Am I completely misunderstanding what's going on?
I accuse you of something and make it seem like you and alisha are teamed due to it. Your defence is that you'd do it even if you were mafia (why would a townie even think to say this?)
You then say it wasn't part of your objective to defend alisha there, you felt compelled to do it (where defending alisha from an illogical vote would have been a townie objective)
(and I'm interpreting this as you trying to do damage control for you and alisha being paired by saying you'd do it regardless of whether alisha was your partner or not since that's the only way that way of thinking makes sense to me)
I wanted to see what you would consider to be your breaking point in terms of reaching out during an argument for entirely moralistic motivations, compared to Timdood. Since I wasn't entirely sure if you originally began to consider Timdood scum because you didn't believe his motivations to be genuine, or you were not sure why somebody would defend someone else because of their morals.
Since it is the former as you identified where you would defend somebody, I am now sure that this is not a case of different personality styles, and it is because you don't see Tim's actions as genuine. It might seem obvious, but I wanted to be sure as I try to work out my complicated reads on both of you.
(wanting as in outside of feeling compelled to do it, which brings with it its own version of 'wanting' I guess)
it's as if you're saying you dragged your heels and did it since you had to, not because you wanted to
you don't seem like a person who signs up to mafia and then doesn't get invested and want to win, so that ^ impression makes you seem anti town to me
It was originally because I felt he was inaccurately describing what brian was doing and I struggled to understand where he'd get that idea from, so it felt fake
His explanation of that was basically that he used the wrong metaphor to explain it, which I find slightly hard to believe
Then the whole 'I have to' wording came into play which further made me think you two were a team, which I'd been considering before because I wondered whether tim's defence of you with that fake-feeling read was because he was your partner, and both of you were suspicious to me
Inffy, are you confident enough on your read on me to believe Timdood is guilty by association? It is one thing to continually hammer on me because I always appear this way, but when I brought up my own read on Stranger you appeared to brush it off in favor of continuing this line of questionng on both myself and Timdood. You asked a question but sort of let the subject go.
I'm beginning to consider voting you because you're laser focused on me as scum, and just by proxy you're also not really questioning me and instead moving very hard against Tim. I feel like most of your suspicion on him is just because you have a negative read on me, rather than looking at his actions on their own merits. Timdood says something that might be a slip - how does this scenario look if I am not in the picture?
That's not to say I'm convinced Tim is innocent, but I think this needs to be addressed first.
I'm beginning to consider voting you because you're laser focused on me as scum, and just by proxy you're also not really questioning me and instead moving very hard against Tim. I feel like most of your suspicion on him is just because you have a negative read on me, rather than looking at his actions on their own merits. Timdood says something that might be a slip - how does this scenario look if I am not in the picture?
That's not to say I'm convinced Tim is innocent, but I think this needs to be addressed first.
It'd give me more confidence that tim is scum, but I'm not that confident that'd it be a confirmed thing in my eyes, no
That's because I don't think stranger has been scummy and I don't think it's likely they thought to join in on a joke so that they'd seem friendly and therefore get along with people better and therefore be more dificult to lynch without taking credit for the joke themselves if people didn't like it, because that seems like quite an elaborate line of thinking that's specific to you and not something that I think is a shared understanding and likely to be something stranger thought of
Why does me being laser focused on you as scum make me scum?
So I'm suspicious for laser focusing on you but also for moving away from you and onto tim? Or am I misunderstanding you?
That's not true, I was originally suspicious of him because his read on brian felt fake, which would still be suspicious to me even if I thought you were town. The 'have to' line of thinking is linked to you being scum though yeah, but now that's developped into what I perceive as him straight up talking like mafia, either defending you as being a teammate or attempting to WIFOM you getting mislynched in doing so, so I'm suspicious of him regardless of your alignment based on that as well
If tim says something that might be a slip and you're out of the picture then I'd be suspicious of him of course. This question doesn't feel like it's coming from a genuine place tbh, I don't understand what other response you'd expect from me from this question, it feels like you're not truly trying to figure me out and just trying to look inquisitive
My primary motivation for defending Alisha was in the interest of fairness. It's something I would've done for any under fire or an argument like Brian's.
It happens to fir into the secondary universal goal of town: Don't lynch town. The primary goal of town being: Lynch mafia. That primary goal is the only one I had in mind as I was writing that, and defending Alisha obviously doesn't get mafia lynched.
I used "even if I were mafia" as a phrase to mean "under any circumstance." It made sense to me because it's the opposite of reality. Maybe it doesn't make sense to you because you're reading it with the assumption that it is reality.
1) In that post you also overlooked the fact that I still got across what I was trying to say (which you later acknowledged.)
2) You're interpreting the phrase "I have to" as not wanting to do something. That's not accurate here. I've explained it multiple times. First, you ignored the context in which it was used, and now you're ignoring my reasonings, continuing to portray me as someone who wanted to agree with Brian, but "couldn't because I'd be supporting an argument against my partner" or something? Is there any reason you can think of for me to want to agree with Brian? And if I did, then why would I defend Alisha from it? Why wouldn't I just do nothing about it?
What you're saying my motivations are just aren't lining up with my actions.
Thinking about this now, it makes sense, since your perspective is that Alisha and I are a mafia team.
I guess ignore the last few sentences of my last post.
Still answer this though:
You've never explained to me that it's something you wanted to do. You said it wasn't part of your objective but you felt compelled to do it and as though you had to. I know that feeling as though you have to do something doesn't necessarily mean you don't want to, but it gave me the impression that you didn't want to, since by justifying something by saying you 'have to' do something it often insinuates that the 'having to' outshines the 'want to', and I thought as a townie you'd feel strongly that you wanted to since you'd want to win
I didn't ignore the context, I gave you reasons for why I was suspicious of it regardless of the context. I'm not ignoring your reasoning either, they just haven't sufficed to me yet.
Yes, that part of you wants to avoid defending your teammate since you want to be distant from them, but part of you also feels as though you have to because they are your teammate and that's what teammates do. So you see a teammate in trouble and think *sigh* "I guess I have to defend them even though it might implicate me". That's how I interpreted this situation, and that's why you'd have wanted to agree with brian/not defend alisha, but felt as though you had to defend alisha and therefore did
tbh though writing that out it seems a lot more far-fetched than it did in my head and I'm thinking back to the tunnel vision sign
This whole argument suddenly feels like it's too specific to be likely and I'm backpedalling on my suspicion on you
Since the 'I have to' thing was based on what I believed to be universal language choices and ways of thinking, but your argument was based on something I felt wasn't a universal way of thinking
...I was going to point that out when I made my big post but ok I'll make a smaller one for now
So Inffy the reason I am asking probing questions is because I'm grappling with the idea of Timdood being scum, but your own accusations of me are undermining your case fmpov since I know your theory to be untrue
Why should I believe Tim to be scum when a large part of your reasoning depends on your (incorrect) view of myself?
That's why I was so confused when you voted for him, since I saw little reason for you to be suspicious of him at that point
I guess now it's just his perspective that I pointed out - how he seemed to be talking as though he was trying to make it seem like you two wouldn't be a team once he flipped, and speaking from the perspective of mafia. Regardless of your alignment that could look scummy to both of us, since even if you're town I'd interpret that as him trying to WIFOM you to look like his partner. There's also his read on brian and the use of that metaphor if you don't believe his explanation for that, which reminds me I forgot to respond to this
Yeah that's true I kinda forgot about that when I wrote that again, although I just realized that the sentence you highlighted that fits what you were trying to say is unspecific and could have applied to the arrow interpretation I had, and it's possible that now you're just saying it was about the subconscious thing when it wasn't, so it's not strong evidence in your favour but it is enough for me to drop the suspicion there
(Since your suspicion on the read of brian wasn't enough to vote for him earlier and the only thing that had been added since then was the team theory I had)