Kami's Realm - Survival Multiplayer

[Lee_scar]

Its good to head the numbers directly.

Though what is the opinions on allowing enchantments on low tier armors and swords.
A sharp V wood sword isn't going to break the server.
Nor will prot IV leather

 

[Danni122112]

oh yay, smp server with pvp =)

 

[Notme]

oh yay, smp server with pvp =)

I wonder if you build city of DGH - well we still can have cities within clans, just like in Primordia.

 

[Wink]

All jokes aside, thanks for the healthy discussion thus far.

and yes, this was a joke. 2JTE4me

 

[paceboys]

All jokes aside, thanks for the healthy discussion thus far.

If I can go a whole thread without posting a memer you can too

 

[DaniGrenade]

Is there a limit of people per clan? Because imagine 30 wind members and only 4 earth members. ;o

 

[Danni122112]

All jokes aside, thanks for the healthy discussion thus far.

and yes, this was a joke. 2JTE4me

I dont see AoD on the 1.8 server so far =(

 

[Notme]

Map with radius of 7500 is going to be big like this:
This one has seed "Kami"

 

[Catcocomics]

I'm starting to think we made need to use some better tools than just plain math here now.

First of all, iron golems have 100 HP; enderdragons and withers have 200 HP. And a bow dealing more than 24 damage in 1 hit without mods or NBT editing is not possible, even to unarmored players.

Second of all, I volunteer to go in to SSP with damage indicators and custom NPCs mod so that I can fully test the statistics in what were are discussing for pvp. I will record it and put the link to the video on this thread when I do it... thursday or friday this week.

As for god armor/god apples:
I used to play at this creative/factions server where basically everyone has god armor because you can bring things from plots world to factions world.
At first, combat consisted of how long your armor would last (so I always had a back-up set) and how long your notch apples would last, and these battles would range from five to twenty minutes.
They later banned notch apples for non-donors, and suddenly battles with the god armor and weapons were generally over in 20 seconds to 3 minutes.

But I'd still wait for the hard data when I can release it.

 

[Jayfeather]

First of all, iron golems have 100 HP; enderdragons and withers have 200 HP. And a bow dealing more than 24 damage in 1 hit without mods or NBT editing is not possible, even to unarmored players.

Second of all, I volunteer to go in to SSP with damage indicators and custom NPCs mod so that I can fully test the statistics in what were are discussing for pvp. I will record it and put the link to the video on this thread when I do it... thursday or friday this week.

But I'd still wait for the hard data when I can release it.

I don't trust you to interpret data because you have a side already chosen and because of the difficulty involved in measuring damage and multipliers with multiple variables but I DO trust the Minecraft Wiki that Paceboys specifically cited

 

[Catcocomics]

I'm not going to interpret the data for you guys, I'm just going to go and get it.

 

[paceboys]

I'm starting to think we made need to use some better tools than just plain math here now.

First of all, iron golems have 100 HP; enderdragons and withers have 200 HP. And a bow dealing more than 24 damage in 1 hit without mods or NBT editing is not possible, even to unarmored players.

Second of all, I volunteer to go in to SSP with damage indicators and custom NPCs mod so that I can fully test the statistics in what were are discussing for pvp. I will record it and put the link to the video on this thread when I do it... thursday or friday this week.

As for god armor/god apples:
I used to play at this creative/factions server where basically everyone has god armor because you can bring things from plots world to factions world.
At first, combat consisted of how long your armor would last (so I always had a back-up set) and how long your notch apples would last, and these battles would range from five to twenty minutes.
They later banned notch apples for non-donors, and suddenly battles with the god armor and weapons were generally over in 20 seconds to 3 minutes.

But I'd still wait for the hard data when I can release it.

This just in, math is useless!

Dude if we can't convince you with legitimate facts and calculations specifically showing the exact damage ratios and increases caused by enchantments and potions then you're either a) not reading anything we're saying or b) the most stubborn person in the world.

Left clicking a person for 25 minutes to see who's armor breaks first isn't PvP. If that's what you think PvP is then my assumption of the fact that you're really REALLY bad at PvP is 100% accurate. Left clicking for 25 minutes doesn't take skill. You should try finding a PvP server with enchants/potions disabled and practicing there because no good PvP server has them enabled.

I've been responding to you very calmly and rationally but jesus christ we've spelled it out for you. If pure fact is 'illogical' and 'incorrect' to you, then I give up. I guess we can't please everyone.

I'm not going to interpret the data for you guys, I'm just going to go and get it.

We GOT the data and we DID the math, but you're just not accepting the fact that the only reason you've ever had any success in PvP is because of potions and enchantments, and you won't stop arguing a point that you're ignoring the fact in because you don't want to be wrong.

 

[superstein]

I guess we can't please everyone.

Such is life as SMP Director.

I'm under the opinion enchantments should be at least toned down (Capped at lvl2 or something) but I think it's quite unfun when PVP is brainless and solely based on the gear somebody has.

 

[Lee_scar]

They later banned notch apples for non-donors, and suddenly battles with the god armor and weapons were generally over in 20 seconds to 3 minutes.

3 minutes is an awful long time to have a pvp match.
Maybe if its a hide and seek type of match.

 

[Catcocomics]

Left clicking a person for 25 minutes to see who's armor breaks first isn't PvP. If that's what you think PvP is then my assumption of the fact that you're really REALLY bad at PvP is 100% accurate.

I'd rather be burned alive than do that.
You want to see who's good at pvp? 1v1 no armor, wood sword me.

Go ahead and remove notch apples and poison potions, possibly the strength potions as well.

3 minutes is an awful long time to have a pvp match.
Maybe if its a hide and seek type of match.

Or maybe the people have set some kind of warp point where they can keep coming no matter how many times you kill them.

It's not brainless, it takes skill. PvP is brainless when you fight for 25 minutes. If we're both iron armor iron sword, you can't call the winner 'noskill' or the fight 'brainless', because it was an even matchup. If you're willing to elaborate on how PvP in an even matchup is brainless, I'd appreciate it.

Assuming everyone has full set of iron, or diamond armor, which they might.
This goes back to basically making the best weapons and armor anyone can have be ordinary wood and leather.

[edit]: And maybe I should point out that realistically, it's impossible to have an even match-up.
If we remove all success factors except for pure pvp skill from Kami's Realm, we might as well call it AoD 2 or something, because even a pvp-type smp is going to mean more than just pvp. The reason why so many people enjoy smp is because, even though fighting is a thing, you aren't spending every minute beating people to death.

 

[Jayfeather]

@pace: you misinterpreted superstein he's agreeing with you
@catco: Iron and diamonds are a part of the basic game and anyone who puts in a decent amount of time (not hundreds or thousands of hours mind you) will be able to get them. Iron = Iron; Leather = Leather; Diamond = Diamond. It doesn't matter what tier it is as long as it's the same tier. The problem that comes from enchantments is when people can not receive the same tiers -- that's the fundamental argument. We have no idea if warp points will be implemented and if they will exactly where you can set the points.

 

[paceboys]

I'd rather be burned alive than do that.
You want to see who's good at pvp? 1v1 no armor, wood sword me.

lmao you're getting a bit ahead of yourself here buddy

Go ahead and remove notch apples and poison potions, possibly the strength potions as well.

yes now you're on the right track I'm proud of you buddy

Or maybe the people have set some kind of warp point where they can keep coming no matter how many times you kill them.

no see now you're back to saying things you already know are wrong and wouldn't ever be implemented into any server ever

Assuming everyone has full set of iron, or diamond armor, which they might.
This goes back to basically making the best weapons and armor anyone can have be ordinary wood and leather.

and if everyone has this gear they would have earned it, and if they win even matched fights they would have earned it, unlike those who grind mobs for 100 hours to 1shot everyone

You're literally saying the same things over and over and over making me repeat the same logical answers over and over and over and it's getting very mundane. You need to either bring something new to the table or stop, because you're not getting anywhere here x)

 

[Lee_scar]

Its really a non-issue at this point.
Clearly people don't like enchantments because it makes pvp a grindy painful situation where you have to gather too many supplies for little to no profit.

 

[cheatyface]

Not to mention Thorns, which at a meagre level three cap can deal 24 points of damage without even touching your opponent, almost 50% of the time.

I was fully unaware how much damage thorns could do. Has that been increased since it was added or is the low level version just really weak?

but I DO trust the Minecraft Wiki that Paceboys specifically cited

Many times this. The minecraft wiki has very specific numbers for many things, we can already do the math. And tests have been done before as well, we know a sharp 4 diamond sword will still cut through full prot 4 in a few hits, both of these things still ruin the game for anyone with anything less, and very much remove space for skill cap.

 

[paceboys]

I was fully unaware how much damage thorns could do. Has that been increased since it was added or is the low level version just really weak?

thorns is absolutely broken it basically does half of the damage you deal back to you

 

[Catcocomics]

You know, maybe the smp staff already have it figured how they want to have the enchantments and other goodies set up.

All in all, this argument has been mostly fruitless, apart from showing the majority's opinion.

I say we talk about other things so we can do more brilliant ideas and less fighting.
Seriously, don't care who's favor the argument is in, it's starting to get a little fiery.

 

[Jayfeather]

I say we talk about other things so we can do more brilliant ideas and less fighting.
Seriously, don't care who's favor the argument is in, it's starting to get a little fiery.

It is my most fervent desire for this community to someday embrace argument and debate without question. This should be a natural process of all decision making we have. I agree that Admins should have the first look and the final say, but the fact that we've talked out and then deduced this much of enchantment effects on game health through this argument is impressive and it never would've happened if Paceboys and you hadn't stepped into the ring. I just get so sick to death of this type of attitude - it's what a lot of the naysayers use on this forum: "Obviously this community can't handle rational discussion, just look at all these other threads." That's not what's happening at all and everyone should know that. This is the function of progress. This is the creation of brilliant ideas. This riffing back and forth is what opens minds and generates new directions for inventions to go in.

 

[Catcocomics]

This riffing back and forth is what opens minds and generates new directions for inventions to go in.

that is, until it start chasing it's tail and starts running in circles with both side spewing out the same arguments and counter arguments, but with increasing ferocity.
I think this argument with the enchantments has run it's course and to continue would only start a flame war.

 

[Oak Milk]

that is, until it start chasing it's tail and starts running in circles with both side spewing out the same arguments and counter arguments, but with increasing ferocity.
I think this argument with the enchantments has run it's course and to continue would only start a flame war.

Well then allow me to end this discussion, I've taken a good look through the points made in the discussion and quite a number of them stuck with both JtTorso and myself. We will and already are looking for ways to balance out enchantments and other aspects of pvp, I'd like to thank people who participated in the discussion and we will likely have more information on the subject in the next meeting.

 

[Catcocomics]

I'd also like to point out (for those who haven't already seen my thread about this) that I will be doing a series for Kami's Realm starting on day one.
But I do have a couple of concerns:

Will I have enough people in the series? This might not be too big an issue though, since I have about 2 weeks plus opening week before I ultimately decide if this will work.

Editing. I could probably just do research or ask other people for anything useful regarding this, but if anyone has suggestions, say, for letting me cut bits out of my videos that just seem boring or to censor accidental swear words, I'd like that.