cooliorules As far as I am concerned, this never happened! <3
Discussion seems to be dead, just want to add my last 2 cents.
If someone dislikes something, then the button allows them to express their opinion.
Just for an example here, I'll use sports teams:
"Go Cowboys!"
*Giants fan sees it*
*Dislikes the cowboys*
*Dislikes the post*
The button only becomes a problem when:
*Cowboys fan sees the dislike*
"OH DIS BITCH GONNA DISLIKE MY POST"
*Dislikes everything the giant fan has ever posted"
If people only used the button to express their opinion, and not spam ratings, then there would be no issue.
If someone dislikes something, then the button allows them to express their opinion.
Just for an example here, I'll use sports teams:
"Go Cowboys!"
*Giants fan sees it*
*Dislikes the cowboys*
*Dislikes the post*
The button only becomes a problem when:
*Cowboys fan sees the dislike*
"OH DIS BITCH GONNA DISLIKE MY POST"
*Dislikes everything the giant fan has ever posted"
If people only used the button to express their opinion, and not spam ratings, then there would be no issue.
W
Wimali
Guest
EDIT: Sorry if you see any hostility in this post.
Alright. This is probably going to be my last big post in this thread. I’ve re-read this thread a few times and took some time to think about it (all in all been staring at my computer screen for 7+ hours) and now I’m really just thinking...
Why the fuck would you want a dislike rating?
I’ve been on over 50 forums in my lifetime, with Blocktopia being my permanent one for the last year or so. But I did join some other forums in the last few months, because I felt like it could be time to find a new community. Almost all of those were using xenforo, but not the ratings add-on. So I, being a community guy, suggested it on a lot of forums. On most of them I got the same response- One or two said they didn’t see a use for it or they simply couldn’t afford it. All the others? They were positive about it. They just had one objection: No dislike button. They realized it would only lead to hate and bullying.
I love how Blocktopia is often trying to be different from other forums. I absolutely adore that. But that shouldn’t be the case with this one. I’m now going to post some arguments from other sources here, as I realize me –with my average English skills and average intelligence- have failed to convince you. I got the feeling this won’t help as well, but I’ve yet to understand why you’d really want to keep it after seeing how it’s only properly used in very few cases and has mostly caused hate.
Anyway, onto the copied responses. These have all been taken from real sources, by the way. I’m going to leave the source on all of them, except on ones coming from other servers because no advertising. If you know Google good enough you should be easily able to find them yourselves though.
Onto the first one. It’s taken from another minecraft community, a way bigger one than this one. It consists of almost the exact same community, mostly kids and quite a few permanent members. The only difference with this community is that people are actually publicly immature there- Here people are more like little kids, acting mature but not actually being mature (Just like me!). Someone suggested to add the dislike button, and I’m going to paste some responses. The things I want to focus on are in light blue. (Keep in mind most of the responses were written by other kids though)
I'm not too fond of this. I think it's better to write why you dislike an idea istead of just pressing a button.That way the one who made the post can add or delete things that others don't like after they told him/her. Much easier than to get a dislike and then figure out what they don't like by yourself.
You shouldn't be able to dislike, people around have so much negativityyou will put this website out of balance.
No, having a dislike feature makes people feel bad about themselves. If you had people disliking your posts, wouldn't you be mad/sad?
No thanks.
This may make people feel bad about themselvesand not want to come on this awesome forum again.
Sadly, I will have to vote no for this one. Trolling could become a huge nuisance for players who have haters who will find every one of their posts and down vote them all. (Edit from Bram: Sound familiar?) Sorry, but some people are just too immature.
no.
I've seen this 'Dislike' thing suggested on tons of forums, and all admins have a simple answer of no. But they all have different reasonings.
For me, it will start flame wars between users. Period. No way to say that this won't happen, and it will happen.
Sorry.
I don't like this idea for the reasons listed below.
·Trolls are just gonna go around down voting each and every post.
·Some people that hate someone will spam the dislike button on every one of their posts.
·Some people are not mature enough to take bad news, so when some people deliver it, dislike spam is incoming.
·Its gonna start tons of arguments.
·It would bring a lot of negativity.
·If you don't like it, don't click like. So a dislike button is kind of useless.
I hope reading these was very helpful. PM me for a link to the original responses, if you want them. Sure, most of these responses were written by kids, but isn’t that just all the more reason to listen to them? Most of the community consists of kids. Hell, most of the people who responded to this thread and the topic-starter himself are kids. But I’ve got the feeling some of you still aren’t convinced. So hey, here’s another few sources. These were all taken from the links I posted a bit earlier. FYI, they were all saying why Facebook shouldn’t add a dislike button. It still very much applies to this situation though.
negativity requires effort. I think this is how it should be, providing a natural counter-balance to what I believe is the greater likelihood for users to post complaints rather than praise.
(EDIT by Bram: This is an answer to “Why shouldn’t Facebook add a dislike button?”)Because you’d use it.
We live in a world where there is a long-standing Anger Industry, spurring us to ‘Dislike’ lots of things. The left dislikes the right, and vice versa, and plenty of cable news shows are happy to stir up either side (or both simultaneously), either to support an agenda, or simply get ratings, or both. Real-life is filled with people disliking other people, and encouraging others to do so as well.
Which is exactly why Facebook doesn’t want a ‘Dislike’ button. People would ‘Dislike’ everything from other people’s political and religious views, to individual statements and probably even the individuals themselves. And that is not what Facebook wants their experience to be.
Imagine a friend updates their status with one of those ‘Post this in your status for at least an hour to say you’re against cancer!!!!’ messages. And you’ve had a bad day, and you’ve seen this message 84 times before, and you think it’s a scam, so you just decide to click ‘Dislike’. Then, your friend writes back a comment like “what, are you FOR cancer?!?” But that isn’t what you meant, so you try to clarify, but someone else ‘Dislikes’ that.
I do agree that there are times when a dislike button would be nice. But, I wonder how often those who think it would be a great idea actually stop and think about the other ways in which it could be used.
If you think about it, a dislike button opens up yet another door to jerks, bullies, and those with axes to grind. It leaves the opportunity for others to try and knock you down or take the wind out of your sail. It leaves your cake wide open for anybody to leave poop on it (click hereif you don’t know what that is in reference to). And if I’ve learned anything from writing a blog like Single Dad Laughing, there is a never-ending supply of people who will happily do so.
I have also observed that more often than not, negative breeds more negative. If the response to something I’ve written starts out positive, the naysayers steer clear. If it starts out negative, other naysayers have no trouble issuing their reprimands. This in turn, keeps the people who liked it, appreciated it, or would have found something useful in it at bay. They’re often too scared and too hesitant to write something positive for fear of backlash. This phenomenon saddens me, really.
the biggest reason we should never implement a dislike button is because as human beings, it is extremely difficult to not be sucked into those negative responses and criticisms we receive.
Sources are in my other post I linked. I’d suggest to read them fully before responding to this post. I’ve already had enough people respond to this thread and saying a dislike button should stay, giving reasons I’ve already talked about on the very first post.
There’s a downvote button on reddit. There’s one on imgur. But there’s two major differences between this community and those two:
1. The amount of dislikes you’ve received is not displayed on your profile on Reddit or Imgur
2. Reddit and imgur are a lot, a LOT more mature than this community. Sure, there’s a lot of “downvote fairies”, but people will upvote to counter the troll-downvotes. On here, that’s not even possible.
Anyway, I’ve kind of given up on the idea of removing the dislike button. There’s four reasons for that, actually.
1. The very fact that people even want a dislike button
This is honestly what made me wonder and feel disgusted with Blocktopia the most. Yeah, I get it. The button is useful sometimes. I’ve already admitted that 5+ times in this thread. But even then it’s bad. And the whole “freedom” thing is just bullshit. It’s not like you’re taking away the ability to dislike something from someone. They can still respond in a normal message.
2. The amount of fake maturity in this community
I see the occasional guy just jumping in here, trying to act mature & classy, and then just jumping out again. Not even on this thread alone. Okay, I get it, it’s sometimes too tempting to look cool and mature and wise. But some of the guys who did something like this, also did what I’m talking about in my next point.
3. The amount of people who responded with points I’ve already talked about or disproved in the very first post.
I’ve seen plenty of people say “ever heard of the phrase guns don’t kill people, people do?”. Yes actually, I did. And I talked about it in the very first post, saying how I don’t think that’s true. Another statement I’ve seen a lot in this thread now is “if you really care about what someone else on the internet thinks about you, you should just take a step outside”. Seriously. A shitton of people have brought this one up, while I already talked about it in the first post and talked about it another time again. I just mean, are you just ignoring what I’m saying because you refuse to believe it or something? People will care about what you think about them, on the internet or not on the internet. Especially if they have a bigger social life on here than in real life. ESPECIALLY in a smaller community like this, where almost everyone knows eachother.
4. The fact that people who were against the dislike button used it in this very thread because they disagreed with someone's opinion, or just because they made a joke
Seriously? I just mean... wow. Some of the people who did this removed their dislikes after I talked about this earlier (which is even more childish in my opinion, and another great example of the immaturity in this community). But when I saw this happen, I laughed. It made me realize all of this was just a waste of time. Removing the dislike button wouldn't even change a lot. It made me laugh and then it made me feel sad.
Bah, I don’t really want to waste more time writing on here because I know it’s not getting through. I’ve honestly lost faith in this community. I know that sounds like I’m overreacting or “being a drama queen”, but this thread isn’t the only reason for that. Also...
PLEASE READ EVERY SINGLE RESPONSE IN THIS THREAD BEFORE RESPONDING. AND THINK BEFORE YOU RESPOND!
(I realize the all caps & big red text might make a look mad, but I just thought I'd have to make it be noticeable <3)
Alright. This is probably going to be my last big post in this thread. I’ve re-read this thread a few times and took some time to think about it (all in all been staring at my computer screen for 7+ hours) and now I’m really just thinking...
Why the fuck would you want a dislike rating?
I’ve been on over 50 forums in my lifetime, with Blocktopia being my permanent one for the last year or so. But I did join some other forums in the last few months, because I felt like it could be time to find a new community. Almost all of those were using xenforo, but not the ratings add-on. So I, being a community guy, suggested it on a lot of forums. On most of them I got the same response- One or two said they didn’t see a use for it or they simply couldn’t afford it. All the others? They were positive about it. They just had one objection: No dislike button. They realized it would only lead to hate and bullying.
I love how Blocktopia is often trying to be different from other forums. I absolutely adore that. But that shouldn’t be the case with this one. I’m now going to post some arguments from other sources here, as I realize me –with my average English skills and average intelligence- have failed to convince you. I got the feeling this won’t help as well, but I’ve yet to understand why you’d really want to keep it after seeing how it’s only properly used in very few cases and has mostly caused hate.
Anyway, onto the copied responses. These have all been taken from real sources, by the way. I’m going to leave the source on all of them, except on ones coming from other servers because no advertising. If you know Google good enough you should be easily able to find them yourselves though.
Onto the first one. It’s taken from another minecraft community, a way bigger one than this one. It consists of almost the exact same community, mostly kids and quite a few permanent members. The only difference with this community is that people are actually publicly immature there- Here people are more like little kids, acting mature but not actually being mature (Just like me!). Someone suggested to add the dislike button, and I’m going to paste some responses. The things I want to focus on are in light blue. (Keep in mind most of the responses were written by other kids though)
I'm not too fond of this. I think it's better to write why you dislike an idea istead of just pressing a button.That way the one who made the post can add or delete things that others don't like after they told him/her. Much easier than to get a dislike and then figure out what they don't like by yourself.
You shouldn't be able to dislike, people around have so much negativityyou will put this website out of balance.
No, having a dislike feature makes people feel bad about themselves. If you had people disliking your posts, wouldn't you be mad/sad?
No thanks.
This may make people feel bad about themselvesand not want to come on this awesome forum again.
Sadly, I will have to vote no for this one. Trolling could become a huge nuisance for players who have haters who will find every one of their posts and down vote them all. (Edit from Bram: Sound familiar?) Sorry, but some people are just too immature.
no.
I've seen this 'Dislike' thing suggested on tons of forums, and all admins have a simple answer of no. But they all have different reasonings.
For me, it will start flame wars between users. Period. No way to say that this won't happen, and it will happen.
Sorry.
I don't like this idea for the reasons listed below.
·Trolls are just gonna go around down voting each and every post.
·Some people that hate someone will spam the dislike button on every one of their posts.
·Some people are not mature enough to take bad news, so when some people deliver it, dislike spam is incoming.
·Its gonna start tons of arguments.
·It would bring a lot of negativity.
·If you don't like it, don't click like. So a dislike button is kind of useless.
I hope reading these was very helpful. PM me for a link to the original responses, if you want them. Sure, most of these responses were written by kids, but isn’t that just all the more reason to listen to them? Most of the community consists of kids. Hell, most of the people who responded to this thread and the topic-starter himself are kids. But I’ve got the feeling some of you still aren’t convinced. So hey, here’s another few sources. These were all taken from the links I posted a bit earlier. FYI, they were all saying why Facebook shouldn’t add a dislike button. It still very much applies to this situation though.
negativity requires effort. I think this is how it should be, providing a natural counter-balance to what I believe is the greater likelihood for users to post complaints rather than praise.
(EDIT by Bram: This is an answer to “Why shouldn’t Facebook add a dislike button?”)Because you’d use it.
We live in a world where there is a long-standing Anger Industry, spurring us to ‘Dislike’ lots of things. The left dislikes the right, and vice versa, and plenty of cable news shows are happy to stir up either side (or both simultaneously), either to support an agenda, or simply get ratings, or both. Real-life is filled with people disliking other people, and encouraging others to do so as well.
Which is exactly why Facebook doesn’t want a ‘Dislike’ button. People would ‘Dislike’ everything from other people’s political and religious views, to individual statements and probably even the individuals themselves. And that is not what Facebook wants their experience to be.
Imagine a friend updates their status with one of those ‘Post this in your status for at least an hour to say you’re against cancer!!!!’ messages. And you’ve had a bad day, and you’ve seen this message 84 times before, and you think it’s a scam, so you just decide to click ‘Dislike’. Then, your friend writes back a comment like “what, are you FOR cancer?!?” But that isn’t what you meant, so you try to clarify, but someone else ‘Dislikes’ that.
I do agree that there are times when a dislike button would be nice. But, I wonder how often those who think it would be a great idea actually stop and think about the other ways in which it could be used.
If you think about it, a dislike button opens up yet another door to jerks, bullies, and those with axes to grind. It leaves the opportunity for others to try and knock you down or take the wind out of your sail. It leaves your cake wide open for anybody to leave poop on it (click hereif you don’t know what that is in reference to). And if I’ve learned anything from writing a blog like Single Dad Laughing, there is a never-ending supply of people who will happily do so.
I have also observed that more often than not, negative breeds more negative. If the response to something I’ve written starts out positive, the naysayers steer clear. If it starts out negative, other naysayers have no trouble issuing their reprimands. This in turn, keeps the people who liked it, appreciated it, or would have found something useful in it at bay. They’re often too scared and too hesitant to write something positive for fear of backlash. This phenomenon saddens me, really.
the biggest reason we should never implement a dislike button is because as human beings, it is extremely difficult to not be sucked into those negative responses and criticisms we receive.
Sources are in my other post I linked. I’d suggest to read them fully before responding to this post. I’ve already had enough people respond to this thread and saying a dislike button should stay, giving reasons I’ve already talked about on the very first post.
There’s a downvote button on reddit. There’s one on imgur. But there’s two major differences between this community and those two:
1. The amount of dislikes you’ve received is not displayed on your profile on Reddit or Imgur
2. Reddit and imgur are a lot, a LOT more mature than this community. Sure, there’s a lot of “downvote fairies”, but people will upvote to counter the troll-downvotes. On here, that’s not even possible.
Anyway, I’ve kind of given up on the idea of removing the dislike button. There’s four reasons for that, actually.
1. The very fact that people even want a dislike button
This is honestly what made me wonder and feel disgusted with Blocktopia the most. Yeah, I get it. The button is useful sometimes. I’ve already admitted that 5+ times in this thread. But even then it’s bad. And the whole “freedom” thing is just bullshit. It’s not like you’re taking away the ability to dislike something from someone. They can still respond in a normal message.
2. The amount of fake maturity in this community
I see the occasional guy just jumping in here, trying to act mature & classy, and then just jumping out again. Not even on this thread alone. Okay, I get it, it’s sometimes too tempting to look cool and mature and wise. But some of the guys who did something like this, also did what I’m talking about in my next point.
3. The amount of people who responded with points I’ve already talked about or disproved in the very first post.
I’ve seen plenty of people say “ever heard of the phrase guns don’t kill people, people do?”. Yes actually, I did. And I talked about it in the very first post, saying how I don’t think that’s true. Another statement I’ve seen a lot in this thread now is “if you really care about what someone else on the internet thinks about you, you should just take a step outside”. Seriously. A shitton of people have brought this one up, while I already talked about it in the first post and talked about it another time again. I just mean, are you just ignoring what I’m saying because you refuse to believe it or something? People will care about what you think about them, on the internet or not on the internet. Especially if they have a bigger social life on here than in real life. ESPECIALLY in a smaller community like this, where almost everyone knows eachother.
4. The fact that people who were against the dislike button used it in this very thread because they disagreed with someone's opinion, or just because they made a joke
Seriously? I just mean... wow. Some of the people who did this removed their dislikes after I talked about this earlier (which is even more childish in my opinion, and another great example of the immaturity in this community). But when I saw this happen, I laughed. It made me realize all of this was just a waste of time. Removing the dislike button wouldn't even change a lot. It made me laugh and then it made me feel sad.
Bah, I don’t really want to waste more time writing on here because I know it’s not getting through. I’ve honestly lost faith in this community. I know that sounds like I’m overreacting or “being a drama queen”, but this thread isn’t the only reason for that. Also...
PLEASE READ EVERY SINGLE RESPONSE IN THIS THREAD BEFORE RESPONDING. AND THINK BEFORE YOU RESPOND!
(I realize the all caps & big red text might make a look mad, but I just thought I'd have to make it be noticeable <3)
Bram13 I dislike your cancer analogy, going for a pity vote is a very underhand move for such a petty discussion. I understand that you have a strong opinion about the presence of the dislike button but really, it's just your opinion. In my opinion, it serves a clear purpose and I believe that it should remain. If something dis-likable is posted, can we not use the rating designated to show that we deem something dislikable and that we ourselves dislike it? Would you also be an advocate for removing other ratings if they're not being used for their correct purpose?
I hate to say it but things can, sometimes, not be likable, and that's okay because that's just an opinion and nothing more.
I hate to say it but things can, sometimes, not be likable, and that's okay because that's just an opinion and nothing more.
I took the time to read this. I was going to stay out of this discussion because of my original thread. But holy shit, do I have to agree. Over half of the people who join in on a discussion on the forums turn it into an argument and blame the OP for it. Point 3 is very reoccurring. You know about my thread, you even linked it. I just kind of gave up after everyone started saying what I said as an argument against what I said.
That along with the fact that getting actual quotes, opinions and other extremely useful ways of discussing involved, such as what you did here with the quotes, making a post so long that people will go "tl;dr, disagree and here's some obvious argument that's been answered" makes it more of a waste of time to reply and join in to this argument, formerly known as discussion.
But hey, I've said that before and that got disliked. I'm outta here m'kay.
shoop da whoop, I'mma firin' mah laz0r.
How about people PM me specific instances of the rating being misused, so I can get a greater grasp on it? Like I said before, it feels very sheltered to remove the dislike rating at the expense of the people who can use it constructively and well. If the argument is turning into "Disliking hurts people's feelings" I'm going to have none of it. While it is in my duty in this community to prevent cases of cyberbullying, I can and will not shelter everyone to the point of any sort of negative feedback is taboo.
The whole "they can take it somewhere else thing" is fairly moot as well. If you're going to be insulted by getting a dislike, you're going to be insulted by straight up being told that someone doesn't like you as well.
The very first point you brought up is that blocktopia isn't mature enough for a dislike button. As head administrator, this is embarrassing. I want to fix this, not the rating.
Also, it just occurred to me, if specific people are constantly abusing the rating, I can just remove the ability to rate posts for those specific people...
However, Bram13, while I am still personally against removing the rating, I must say, your argument is very well-written and convincing. Props.
The whole "they can take it somewhere else thing" is fairly moot as well. If you're going to be insulted by getting a dislike, you're going to be insulted by straight up being told that someone doesn't like you as well.
The very first point you brought up is that blocktopia isn't mature enough for a dislike button. As head administrator, this is embarrassing. I want to fix this, not the rating.
Also, it just occurred to me, if specific people are constantly abusing the rating, I can just remove the ability to rate posts for those specific people...
However, Bram13, while I am still personally against removing the rating, I must say, your argument is very well-written and convincing. Props.
I find your post embarrassing.
"it feels very sheltered to remove the dislike rating at the expense of the people who can use it constructively and well."
A dislike rating is never constructive, it's just saying: "Hey I don't like this durr." If you think that is important you would want to motivate people to POST if they dislike something instead of just pressing a button.
"While it is in my duty in this community to prevent cases of cyberbullying, I can and will not shelter everyone to the point of any sort of negative feedback is taboo."
Again, this point of this thread is not about negative feedback, but about the dislike rating. You can still give negative constructive criticism without using a rating, actually that is the only way.
"The very first point you brought up is that blocktopia isn't mature enough for a dislike button. As head administrator, this is embarrassing. I want to fix this, not the rating."
I'll fall back on what I said before and now elaborate, GIVING SOMEONE A DISLIKE RATING IS NOT MATURE. I don't give a crap if somebody dislikes my posts but I still think it is incredibly stupid to have. I hate that everyone in here goes: "Grow up and deal with it if somebody dislikes something of yours!!!" while the most mature thing to do would be TO NOT USE THE RATING. If you find something worth of disliking then you simply POST WHY YOU DISLIKE IT or ignore it. In real life, do you confront everyone that says something you disagree with: "I DONT LIKE THIS"? Besides that, you cannot make the community more mature, minecraft is for a big part a game for young(er) kids.
Instead of making dumb posts about how "mature" you guys are and that the rest should grow up (which is totally out of place), try to come up with arguments FOR the rating, because people are definitely overrating (heh) the dislike rating. It is not the best thing in the world and as far as I know has very little advantages.
Kindly avoid starting your post by being aggressive, thankyou.
Anyway, i'll sift through the points now and add my input.
A dislike rating is never constructive, it's just saying: "Hey I don't like this durr." If you think that is important you would want to motivate people to POST if they dislike something instead of just pressing a button.
Arguably it does its job, convincing people not to post something that is on the whole disliked (hopefully). But by the same token you're saying that all negative feedback is useless - it isn't, while someone isn't able to draw any specific conclusion as to why its negative, it is still, on the whole - negative feedback.
Again, this point of this thread is not about negative feedback, but about the dislike rating. You can still give negative constructive criticism without using a rating, actually that is the only way.
You're right and you totally can! However that tends to lead to an escalation of hostility. For example if i post in a thread suddenly saying "I dislike this because (x)", it's rare to not be called out and have someone argue with you about it - people very rarely just pass up an opinion they disagree with. While you may say "well that's fine, you should be forced to defend your opinions!", unfortunately this does just lead to an escalation in petty arguments given that, as said above, we don't even have the supposed maturity to handle usage of negative ratings, let alone take constructive criticism.
I'll fall back on what I said before and now elaborate, GIVING SOMEONE A DISLIKE RATING IS NOT MATURE. I don't give a crap if somebody dislikes my posts but I still think it is incredibly stupid to have. I hate that everyone in here goes: "Grow up and deal with it if somebody dislikes something of yours!!!" while the most mature thing to do would be TO NOT USE THE RATING. If you find something worth of disliking then you simply POST WHY YOU DISLIKE IT or ignore it. In real life, do you confront everyone that says something you disagree with: "I DONT LIKE THIS"? Besides that, you cannot make the community more mature, minecraft is for a big part a game for young(er) kids.
Instead of making dumb posts about how "mature" you guys are and that the rest should grow up (which is totally out of place), try to come up with arguments FOR the rating, because people are definitely overrating (heh) the dislike rating. It is not the best thing in the world and as far as I know has very little advantages.
I think case and point, actually, is that you started this post calling his embarrassing and ended it by calling it dumb. If anything this is a stellar example of the community not being able to handle constructive criticism/differing opinions without acting negatively towards each other. In fact if anything, your post just reinforces the need for negative ratings to avoid this exact outburst.
My Stance
The only thing i would potentially suggest out of all feedback, is removing "disagree/dumb/etc." ratings from a users profile as to generally make people feel less like their record has been marked/turn it less into an attack on a person and more a criticism of a single post. I may also float the idea of removing hiding a post with ratings (for the exact same reason).
W
Wimali
Guest
This. I don't get why post ratings can be seen on someone's profile. They're used to rate posts- Not a person.
So i think we can come to an understanding that, the rating system is of use just currently it's open to abuse/interpretation as a personal attack opposed to a criticism of a specific post. Yes/No?
W
Wimali
Guest
Seems fine to me. As I've said in my last big post:
I don't think removing the dislike button would have a point anymore. I still think the dislike rating is a very bad thing and, like Vatu said, I personally think it is in fact not a good thing to keep it if you want your community to become more mature- But at the same time I just don't think removing it would help that much. Blocktopia is an immature community. You can't fix that; It's targeted at younger kids, so of course it's going to be immature!
So yeah, I don't really think removing the dislike button would make a very big difference.
UNOFFICIAL PSA-ISH THING BRAM THINKS IS OPTIMISTIC IN A POST
Any misuse of ratings should be reported to an Administrator to be dealt with. End of story. Full stop. *Hurries over to Google Translate* *Page doesn't load* Just end the argument and have some common sense, 'k?
Any misuse of ratings should be reported to an Administrator to be dealt with. End of story. Full stop. *Hurries over to Google Translate* *Page doesn't load* Just end the argument and have some common sense, 'k?
I'm sorry if it seemed like I tried to insult Sploorky personally, that was never my intention. The dumb part was more focussed on everyone in the thread that were being ignorant and just saying the same thing over. The embarrassing part may have been a bit mean of me, I agree, I used it because of the (in my opinion) wrong way Sploorky used it in his post.
However, what you said couldn't be more wrong that an option to rate would have never prevented me from making that post. Furthermore I think you are way too focussed on the fact that I said 2 minor 'offensive' things in my post and ignore the main points that I am trying to make. Way to shift away from the problem. I am not against negative feedback but against a dislike rating because it adds nothing and only makes the person feel worse.
I still have not heard any acceptable argumentation from the other side, while Bram and other people have had many great points.
Lets summarize the issues at hand then as it seems to be spreading out
Forgive me if i miss any, i'll happily address them when brought up.
- Ratings add nothing
I would say that arguably its a quick and easy way to express your opinion about a post without having to derail an entire topic. If you go back through every instance a negative rating was used, and try to imagine someone posting explaining why they dislike it ~ you'd quickly find half the topics would've devolved into arguing or just derailed off-topic.
- Ratings are offensive
No one enjoys a negative rating sure, arguably the system could use some changes to perhaps make them less harsh - most notably as i said, stopping them "scoring" on your profile and stopping them from outright hiding posts. But if people cannot stomach a negative rating, high chances are - they can't stomach the post explaining why a person disagrees either.
- Ratings lack explanation
Refer to point one, they do but a person is more than welcome to chase up for feedback - i already tend to if i don't understand why it was disliked
- Ratings get mis-used.
Without a doubt, which is why i'd rather make mis-using them useless and remove it for those who do abuse it than outright remove it at the expense of people who currently use it correctly.
In summary
It does add something, it does cause issues - but these issues would only be made far worse if we decide the correct route is to remove them and force people to post about their reason for disliking. Either we accept and try to adjust the system, accept that there'll be more arguments, or accept that less people will be able to voice an opinion - i really do not see any fourth route.
Forgive me if i miss any, i'll happily address them when brought up.
- Ratings add nothing
I would say that arguably its a quick and easy way to express your opinion about a post without having to derail an entire topic. If you go back through every instance a negative rating was used, and try to imagine someone posting explaining why they dislike it ~ you'd quickly find half the topics would've devolved into arguing or just derailed off-topic.
- Ratings are offensive
No one enjoys a negative rating sure, arguably the system could use some changes to perhaps make them less harsh - most notably as i said, stopping them "scoring" on your profile and stopping them from outright hiding posts. But if people cannot stomach a negative rating, high chances are - they can't stomach the post explaining why a person disagrees either.
- Ratings lack explanation
Refer to point one, they do but a person is more than welcome to chase up for feedback - i already tend to if i don't understand why it was disliked
- Ratings get mis-used.
Without a doubt, which is why i'd rather make mis-using them useless and remove it for those who do abuse it than outright remove it at the expense of people who currently use it correctly.
In summary
It does add something, it does cause issues - but these issues would only be made far worse if we decide the correct route is to remove them and force people to post about their reason for disliking. Either we accept and try to adjust the system, accept that there'll be more arguments, or accept that less people will be able to voice an opinion - i really do not see any fourth route.
back in my day there was none of this reddit upvote/downvote bs
we had cute anime girl avatars and signatures made in pirated versions of photoshop with fractal packs from deviantart and we liked it that way
we had cute anime girl avatars and signatures made in pirated versions of photoshop with fractal packs from deviantart and we liked it that way
Feedback, positive or negative, is always useful even if the negative feedback may cause an argument between two or more people. But what you get from having feedback is that mutual understanding between each other. At some point in an argument, people will begin to reach that sort of gray area, the middle point, where they understand where the other person is coming from in their perspective.
I disagree with what Malc has stated earlier that negative ratings are useful to avoid conflict. What the dislike button does, in essence, is a "hit and run" type of tool for people to use on here -- where much of it has never been followed up with reasoning as to why the person disliked a said post.
The difference between just simply pressing the dislike rating and negative feedback is that with feedback, you get an open discussion with other people. You're not able to hide behind a rating. You're forced, in some respect, to respond and hopefully understand that other person if an argument occurs. This sort of open discussion could help people become more mature and make use of their reasoning skills in the future.
Again, i feel this entire thread is testament to why open discussion does not work.
As i mentioned initially, threads cannot afford to stop every time someone has a differing opinion - it is a quick and easy way to express your opinion on something without detracting from the original post by causing an ongoing discussion about why you dislike it.
That and in theory yes, people should be able to openly express themselves and take on constructive criticism - this would be great, except that they cannot. Even in the past 2-3 days I can highlight arguments caused because a single person posted a differing opinion ~ people do not take this in a mature fashion yet.
Ideal outcome naturally is that as a community we take steps to mature and eventually can phase it out, but for the moment I really do not see its removal as in any way useful. People will criticize and get upset regardless of if the rating system is there or not - I don't think, in any way, that this is the fault of the rating system given that there are other famous forums that manage to cope happily with the exact same system.
I'll say this, people posting why they dislike is very very good. Verrry good. If their posts just causes trouble, report it. But the problem here is, not everyone that dislikes a post will need to make a reply, someone may have already said what they said. Sure they can agree with the post/posts that did, but still just adds time to a process where you could just put in "dislike". You can instead, if someone dislikes your post and you want to know why, PM them, or call them out in the thread (@[name]) for a response.
Now I'm not saying everyone who uses/wants dislike is mature. That's utterly stupid. Isn't a part of the thread about how users are abusing it? But hold on there, dislikes leading to cyber bullying?? What? Not to mention, I meant ruin someone's day because "ohno!Igotadislike.mydayisruined" Learn to get used to it. Seriously. Think about why it was disliked, but don't flipping throw a fit or curse everyone out because of it.
About that minecraft forums stuff. Those responses looked (and most likely were) written by children who don't want negative feedback. Okay, a couple were smart, because the trolling stuff and all that, and for that forum, just because the size and how it's mostly a children's forum (who try desperately to act older), that's why there isn't a dislike. It'd be easy to abuse discreetly, and the mods have millions of others to deal with. But here, that doesn't apply. We have a pretty small community, so when something like that happens, quite a few people know about it, and can report it.
People should get used to getting dislikes. If they grow in a community with no negativity (visible, of course posts still may have some) because they don't want to get their feeeellliinnggsss hurted, then good luck living in the real world.
Now I'm not saying everyone who uses/wants dislike is mature. That's utterly stupid. Isn't a part of the thread about how users are abusing it? But hold on there, dislikes leading to cyber bullying?? What? Not to mention, I meant ruin someone's day because "ohno!Igotadislike.mydayisruined" Learn to get used to it. Seriously. Think about why it was disliked, but don't flipping throw a fit or curse everyone out because of it.
About that minecraft forums stuff. Those responses looked (and most likely were) written by children who don't want negative feedback. Okay, a couple were smart, because the trolling stuff and all that, and for that forum, just because the size and how it's mostly a children's forum (who try desperately to act older), that's why there isn't a dislike. It'd be easy to abuse discreetly, and the mods have millions of others to deal with. But here, that doesn't apply. We have a pretty small community, so when something like that happens, quite a few people know about it, and can report it.
People should get used to getting dislikes. If they grow in a community with no negativity (visible, of course posts still may have some) because they don't want to get their feeeellliinnggsss hurted, then good luck living in the real world.
Ok then. I posted some stuff early in the thread and then, after voicing my opinion and seeing that no reasonable response came that would please both sides, stayed quiet and just read the thread, trying to think how this problem (which is definetly there, probably just not reported or resolved by the people involved in individual cases in most cases) could be solved. And I got nothing. But, now I happened to read this:
While I don't agree with everything Malc has said here, I think that the solutions he proposes here are probably the best. For some things he proposed I didn't even know were possible, but that's just me and my very little knowledge of XenForo.
The solutions brought up in Malc's post don't leave those who use it wisely without the dislike button, and at the same time (sorta) cover all major problems. I do think that feelings still get hurt and not much will change that and in not all cases will the disliked track down the disliker and ask for an explanation, but while in my opinion this problem still remains (again, sorta, and now that I think of it, there really isn't a solution to it) unsolved, all other points have been addressed and I haven't honestly seen a better solution anywhere on this thread.
While I don't agree with everything Malc has said here, I think that the solutions he proposes here are probably the best. For some things he proposed I didn't even know were possible, but that's just me and my very little knowledge of XenForo.
The solutions brought up in Malc's post don't leave those who use it wisely without the dislike button, and at the same time (sorta) cover all major problems. I do think that feelings still get hurt and not much will change that and in not all cases will the disliked track down the disliker and ask for an explanation, but while in my opinion this problem still remains (again, sorta, and now that I think of it, there really isn't a solution to it) unsolved, all other points have been addressed and I haven't honestly seen a better solution anywhere on this thread.
EDIT: Ok that was a bit too much, but really... I think that the longer this thread continues, the more it hurts our community. I think we should all pass out "sorry"s and hugs, and move on!
Tbh if the dislike rating was removed from sight on the player's profile, this would not only solve a lot of the anger towards the rating, but reach a healthy compromise for both sides.
:^)
:^)