CAPITALISM MAFIA

[Comp]

I just reread my post and I make no sense. Ok let me restate it:

I assumed that a player in a country was able to, at some point in the game, confirm whether another player was part of their country. I claimed before all players had done so, so on the chance that I was lying about being Irish and another Irish player claimed, itd be problematic for me, so would make no sense for me to do so. On the other hand, rune claiming country pretty much at the end means nobody else could verify his claim, and nobody else could have countered his claim.

Anyway yeah basically I've made myself seem so suspicious because I'm an idiot and don't know the rules of Mafia so er rip? If you take my assumptions into account in what I posted it probably makes more sense as to why I said what I did

 

[HKCaper]

Ill join in again on the conversation (now the family christmas celebrations are taking a break)

I'll discuss some players which seem to be a hot topic rn:
-Rune:
As mentioned earlier i lowkey trust rune for having claimed canadian late (stupid move if he isnt actualy canadian, like why would he have done it) and for the fact i find it likely he is trudeau.
- Comp:
I said earlier that Comp could be scum, but that was solely based on him being Irish and somethings here and there said about irish politicians. In fact i am starting to get a more town vibe on Comp. It could all be a well played sharade by Comp, but it feels like he is genuine, i dunno, its a vibe.
- Iggish:
I really dont like how iggish is responding to anything, it seems like he is feeling attacked, like a cornered cat (no im not trying to be funny with notty being a cat, just wanted to use this expression). Also him voting notty, seems like a move from his side, simply because notty is "ignoring" his questions, notty, who has been putting pressure on him throughout most of the day.

Other players i dont know yet, i agree on what Inf said earlier about Mooger and Arelic. This Erik fella also seems to be genuine. Don't have too much of a read on other players, like unu/twg/ender/who else is in the game. I feel paige has mostly been memeing so far, but i could be wrong.

 

[Nottykitten]

Saying something else isn't true doens't make your point true. And no, I did not change my reasoning. Describing Canada as little obviously wasn't very accurate but I was thinking in comparison to the UK, USA and AUS where in my opinion it is little (I've already explained why).

No it doesnt. And yes you did change your reasoning. You said very clearly that "Having only one little country among all those giants just seemed wrong." as your reasoning for suspecting comp. Lest we forget that you for some reason decided to change your meaning of 'little', up next you say "Yes, because Canada is larger and much more significant then Ireland.". You proceed to claim australia is much more politicaly significant than Canada even though you throw shade on that argument by saying "Yes, to be honest I don't know a single Aussie politician and I know about Justin but that doesn't mean a country is more politically important then another.".

So what am I saying here? I'm saying that for some reason to you the introduction of someone being canadian nullifies your argument against comp? Atleast thats what youre saying considering it was weird if there was 'one little country among all those giants' but nowthat canadas here(which you clearly stated is 'much more significant' and also physically bigger) somehow ireland existing makes more sense? This is all a load of nonsense and contradictory made up stuff that you're saying to try and pull back from your original argument against comp.

You're litterally contradicting yourself in your latest posts. First you said this:

I have only strongly accused CompG and then my theory turned out to be flawed although some suspicion still remains on that front.

And then later about your comp theory you said this:

"Flawed reason to accuse comp". The reason was perfectly valid. Especially considering it is day one and we had little to go off originally

Excuse me litterally on the same page you claimed your theory on comp was flawed (and before you cry that it's out of context both of these refer to your theory about comp as you can clearly see and youre not talking in hypotheticals). So yes me saying 'you're just making stuff up' seems perfectly valid considering everything you've said so far.

 

[Iggish]

Sorry, Hk, notty just posted so I'll respond to you after, was in the middle of a post but meh

 

[Iggish]

No, no and no. You're taking things out of context and misinterpreting them to fit your agenda.

You said very clearly that "Having only one little country among all those giants just seemed wrong." as your reasoning for suspecting comp.

Yes because at that time Rune hadn't claimed yet so the only claimed countries were the UK, USA, Australia and Ireland. Ireland sticks out like a sore thumb here. Ireland stood out here for me and so it felt wrong. I also thought he could be Gerry Adams and a serial killer. These are valid reasons for day one suspicions.

Lest we forget that you for some reason decided to change your meaning of 'little', up next you say "Yes, because Canada is larger and much more significant then Ireland."

In my eyes Ireland is little. Little was the wrong word to describe Canada but in my eyes it's still a lot smaller in comparison to the other three. I did not change my meaning of little here.
Yes, Canada is larger and more significant then Ireland, what's your point here exactly?

You proceed to claim australia is much more politicaly significant than Canada even though you throw shade on that argument by saying "Yes, to be honest I don't know a single Aussie politician and I know about Justin but that doesn't mean a country is more politically important then another.".

No, that is not throwing shade on that argument. I said Australia is more politically important then Canada. I then said that even though I don't know an Aussie politician and I know about Trudeau, that doesn't impact whether a country has more impact then another. The onyl reason i know about Trudeau is because he came to Ireland a while back but that's irrelevant.
How is this throwing shade on that argument? If I knew more Belgian politicians then French politicians, it doesn't mean I think Belgium is more politically significant.

So what am I saying here? I'm saying that for some reason to you the introduction of someone being canadian nullifies your argument against comp? Atleast thats what youre saying considering it was weird if there was 'one little country among all those giants' but nowthat canadas here(which you clearly stated is 'much more significant' and also physically bigger) somehow ireland existing makes more sense?

Yes because in my eyes compared to the other three, Canada like Ireland, although being more important then Ireland, is still politically "small" compared to the other three. A singular player from a "small" country stood out. Two singular players from two "small" countries don't stand out as much. That was my reasoning. If there was another "small" country, it would make comp stand out less and wouldn't necessarily make me think he's a lone wolf serial killer. I'm not sure how this isn't understood yet so I'll try to explain it in another way.
And no, I'm not trying to be patronising, just trying to make you understand my reasoning.

Yes, it does make sense as although it is bigger, it still only has one player, in addition to my opinion on it, making it "small".

I didn't contradict myself. Originally, the theory was flawless and then it got flawed when Rune came out as Canadian. This is also explained by the above diagram. Yes, it actually is out of context as one is about before Rune came out and the other is after.

So yes me saying 'you're just making stuff up' seems perfectly valid considering everything you've said so far.

Nope, it's not. I haven't made anything up.

Also, answer the questions.

 

[Nottykitten]

I think its funny how you selectively decided to not talk about the point where I litterally have two quotes of you that contradict each other to prove that you're panicking from the 'pressure' and making stuff up to try and 'save' yourself.

 

[Iggish]

- Iggish:
I really dont like how iggish is responding to anything, it seems like he is feeling attacked, like a cornered cat (no im not trying to be funny with notty being a cat, just wanted to use this expression).

I am feeling attacked because I am being attacked. And why are my responses not to your liking?

Also him voting notty, seems like a move from his side, simply because notty is "ignoring" his questions, notty, who has been putting pressure on him throughout most of the day.

....
Notty ignoring my questions is a valid reason to suspect notty of being scum. I have other reasons which I have already mentioned.
Just because Notty has voted for me and has put pressure on me doesn't mean I can't vote for her. This is precisely why I didn't want to vote earlier, because I was afraid it would be interpreted like this. If this for some reason bothers you, Inffy asked why I hadn't voted yet and notty herself kind of goaded me into voting.

If I'm so suspicious then why haven't you voted me.

 

[Iggish]

I didn't contradict myself. Originally, the theory was flawless and then it got flawed when Rune came out as Canadian. This is also explained by the above diagram. Yes, it actually is out of context as one is about before Rune came out and the other is after.

I think its funny how you selectively decided to not talk about the point where I litterally have two quotes of you that contradict each other to prove that you're panicking from the 'pressure' and making stuff up to try and 'save' yourself.

 

[HKCaper]

I am feeling attacked because I am being attacked. And why are my responses not to your liking?

For that exact reason, also day 1 is based a lot on vibe so that adds to it. If someone is being attacked, and replying like they are defending themselves in the way you are, its likely one of the two parties is being scummy. And for this moment i trust notty over you.

 

[Iggish]

I think its funny how you selectively decided to not talk about the point where I litterally have two quotes of you that contradict each other to prove that you're panicking from the 'pressure' and making stuff up to try and 'save' yourself.

You're accusing me of selectively not talking about a point is rich when you haven't answered my questions.

 

[Iggish]

For that exact reason, also day 1 is based a lot on vibe so that adds to it. If someone is being attacked, and replying like they are defending themselves in the way you are, its likely one of the two parties is being scummy. And for this moment i trust notty over you.

Yes, day one is based a lot on vibes. And yet notty is trying to pick me apart on a theory I had about someone being scummy that wasn't just vibes, but was actually justified with reason.
Of course I'm bias here, but how am I appearing more scummy than notty after notty doing those scummy things? What has notty done to claim your trust?

 

[Iggish]

Atleast I'll have a lot more funny ratings by the end of the day whatever happens.

 

[Nottykitten]

a theory I had about someone being scummy that wasn't just vibes, but was actually justified with reason.

You sure about that iggish? Since on page 9 post #204 you claimed it was actually flawed?????????? See below:

I have only strongly accused CompG and then my theory turned out to be flawed although some suspicion still remains on that front.

HMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[HKCaper]

I guess if i had to say something, it is in the writing style.

Yours is more panicked, you are trying to make things work, that are broken (does that make sense).

Notty is being more calm, knows what she is doing.

Both could be scum, but im leaning towards you for now, based mostly of gut feeling.

 

[Iggish]

You sure about that iggish? Since on page 9 post #204 you claimed it was actually flawed?????????? See below:

HGDFJKTWFUAWFKYDAWTAWKYUDFDAWKU

It was only flawed after rune came out as Canadian. I even put a disclaimer in my post saying that it would be flawed if there was a Canadian.
It was a good theory before Rune came out and it was flawed after he came out, comprendre?

 

[Iggish]

Yours is more panicked, you are trying to make things work, that are broken (does that make sense).

Notty is being more calm, knows what she is doing.

I don't think panicked is the right word. Just because I haven't been as eloquent and composed as notty doesn't mean she is in the right. How are my points broken, notty has only made it appear broken my taking my posts grossly out of context. Ask me which points are broken and I will clarify them for you.

What do you think about the fact that notty hasn't responded to my questions?

 

[Infected_alien8_]

I just reread my post and I make no sense. Ok let me restate it:

I assumed that a player in a country was able to, at some point in the game, confirm whether another player was part of their country. I claimed before all players had done so, so on the chance that I was lying about being Irish and another Irish player claimed, itd be problematic for me, so would make no sense for me to do so. On the other hand, rune claiming country pretty much at the end means nobody else could verify his claim, and nobody else could have countered his claim.

Anyway yeah basically I've made myself seem so suspicious because I'm an idiot and don't know the rules of Mafia so er rip? If you take my assumptions into account in what I posted it probably makes more sense as to why I said what I did

Okay, well your reasons for saying what you said seem to be changing every time the wind changes direction. If the assumption you had made was truly that someone could see whether or not another player was part of their country, 1) why did you assume that? 2) why did you say this then?

If I were not town, I then it wouldn't make sense for me to, a) announce before most people had said, and b) announce my country as being something which would attract attention to myself by being the sole member in a country. I'd imagine that Mafia will be hiding in one of the larger countries for this reason, and possibly have replied near the end.

You said that announcing your country would be bad because it would "attract attention to myself by being the sole member in a country", and you failed to mention the assumption about being able to see what country people are in. Also, if you truly thought people could see who was in their country or not, why did imagine that the mafia would be hiding in another country? Surely, by your assumption, that'd be suicide for them, since they'd be found out?

I've only read your post on this page so far so sorry if I'm not responding to anything else directed at me yet, I'll read the rest of the page soon

 

[Unusual_Dood]

Jivvi, I would appreciate some vote counts

 

[webpaige]

I feel paige has mostly been memeing so far, but i could be wrong.

It's Day 1 and I was called a man

 

[Infected_alien8_]

tbh I'm starting to think Notty vs Iggish is two town against each other, and that Iggish just wasn't clear enough and made a bit of a mess trying to explain his point, which Notty's latched onto as a townie and wants him lynched

Iggish can you clarify some things for me though

Aghhhhhh. How is bringing up Canada weird?

I used Canada as an example as it is more significant then Ireland. I was pointing out that my theory would be flawed if there was a Canadian role. I chose Canada over New Zealand and Guyana as it is much more influential. While I used Canada, my theory still would've been flawed if there had been a New Zealand(ish?) politician or a Guyanian(?) one. My point was why include a small country like Ireland if you are not going to include a more significant country like Canada.

Out of three options to pick (Canada,Guyana,New Zealand), Canada being by far the most significant, why is it weird that I mentioned Canada?

I mean little in the grand scheme of things. In previous posts I have said that Canada has greater international and political importance than Ireland but I would still consider it a "little" country in these terms. Perhaps little was the wrong word.
I mean, it's up to the person but I don't consider Canada a political giant at all. I don't see how it makes no sense?

Yes because in my eyes compared to the other three, Canada like Ireland, although being more important then Ireland, is still politically "small" compared to the other three. A singular player from a "small" country stood out. Two singular players from two "small" countries don't stand out as much. That was my reasoning. If there was another "small" country, it would make comp stand out less and wouldn't necessarily make me think he's a lone wolf serial killer. I'm not sure how this isn't understood yet so I'll try to explain it in another way.
And no, I'm not trying to be patronising, just trying to make you understand my reasoning.

Yes, it does make sense as although it is bigger, it still only has one player, in addition to my opinion on it, making it "small".

I didn't contradict myself. Originally, the theory was flawless and then it got flawed when Rune came out as Canadian. This is also explained by the above diagram. Yes, it actually is out of context as one is about before Rune came out and the other is after.


Nope, it's not. I haven't made anything up.

Also, answer the questions.

You originally said your point as if it were the fact that Jivvi jumped to Ireland and skipped out other, more significant countries (Canada and such), which made you think Ireland was specifically chosen for the serial killer role. Meaning that if Canada, or some other significant country, were in the game, the 'skip' would no longer have taken place and so your theory would be flawed.

But then your argument kinda evolves into one about how Ireland is the only insignificant country, and that Canada (or some other country) being in the game would have made your argument flawed because it would mean it wasn't the only insignificant country anymore.

Then you later include a whole new point to your argument, saying that it's also the fact that Ireland isn't the only one that has just one player anymore, meaning Ireland sticks out less.

So your argument does seem to change over time, which I find pretty weird - why did this happen? I can see why it might happen as a townie but I'd like you to explain it please.

On one hand, your reaction where you did the dramatic bolding stuff seemed off to me, but your reactions other than that have seemed good to me, and your reason for not voting Notty actually felt really honest and townie to me (about not voting her because you don't want her to use that against you further), but I could also see why you'd say that as Mafia too, so it's more just my interpretation/vibes that make me think it came from a townie's voice rather than Mafia there, but idk. Meanwhile Notty also vibes quite town to me right now, which is why I think this is possibly just two town against each other. Anyways yeah can you please explain your argument clearly and why it seemed to change over the course of time?

 

[erik5456]

Wow 4 pages of discussion in a day. Gr8 Christmas gift.

I feel like we're pulling out the biggest misunderstanding in the world. An idea Iggish had being shown to be flawed doesn't suddenly mean anything regarding his alignment or Notty's alignment (other then the fact that they both seem to be very town right now).

And sort of building off of that right now, we've already mentioned that someone's probably lied about their country. One thing i want to point out is that there's always the possibility that Runemen lied about being from Canada. It just seems too convenient that the next person to claim just so happens to be exactly what Iggish suggested could be a possibility.

And Inffy, about the whole why mafia would be spread out, it wouldn't make sense for all of mafia to be clumped up into a single country more from a flavour point of view since I can't think of a ton of non-capitalists from a single country out of the UK, USA, and Australia (this is also due to a level of political ignorance on my part granted). So i thought that either they'd be separated out OR if they were all from same country, then it'd be more of an autocratic one (like someone mentioned China).

 

[Danni122112]

I really hope at least one of the main guys discussing is mafia, or its just villager knocking their heads together lol

 

[Jivvi]

Jivvi, I would appreciate some vote counts

manners

i'm back home tomorrow so i planned to keep up a little better then

 

[Iggish]

So far all the claims have been for English speaking countries. I find it hard to believe that there is no Putin or Kim Jong Un in this game.

Just a theory but maybe the mafia are all foreign leaders with suspicious tactics. Like maybe on a four man team you'd have Putin, KJU, the Venezuelan guy and the Kenyan guy or something. Maybe Aun Suu Kyi or whatever her name is as well.

Also, if Jivvi included an Irish person he almost definitely included a Canadian.

Unless Ender is Canadian, I've no idea why Jivvi would put an Irish politician into the game over a Canadian unless the Irish person had a special role.
Once again, this is just theory but it would make sense for a serial killer or third party role to be Gerry Adams who was head of the IRA. I don't know why an Irish politician would be included otherwise.

Ok so these were my two posts about my original theory. You said you understood them though so I'll move on.

Because in my mind there was no way that a small and politically insignificant country like Ireland would have a role when a much larger country like Canada wouldn't.
At that stage, the majority had claimed iirc and I thought that if there was no Canadian, then Comp would have a third party role. As it turned out, there was a Canadian, but I still think there's a high chance of him being third party possibly a serial killer. Idk if I'm explaining this well or not.

If there was no Canadian, why? Why would Jivvi pick a small country like Ireland over Canada unless he had a special role thought out revolving around an Irish politician (and there have been many sketchy Irish politicians and the IRA etc.) In my head I made the connection between a third party serial killer and Gerry Adams, the former IRA leader and politician. I probably made this connection because I'm more aware of this then others and once I saw Ireland I was immediately thinking of it's significance (naturally as I'm Irish).

I hope I made sense here, as I'm not sure I did. If you need any clarification, feel free to ask.

Because it seemed like all the countries being mentioned were (as someone said) former British colonies and English speaking. Canada isn't a world power but it is significantly more important then Ireland (imo anyway) and it would make more sense for Canada to be in the game instead of Ireland, not the other way around.

Canada would also be vastly more significant then somewhere like New Zealand which is why I picked Canada in my example.

Also, without Canada the only countries in the game would be the USA, UK, Australia and Ireland. Having only one little country among all those giants just seemed wrong.

Ok so I've tried to bold all the phrases relating to size above and I'm pretty sure I haven't missed anything. I'll go into more detail below. More quotes to come after as well.
At the start I say that "there was no way that a small and politically insignificant country like Ireland would have a role when a much larger country like Canada wouldn't" Ok so here the first time we see me say that Ireland is small and insignificant while Canada is much larger then Ireland.
"Why would Jivvi pick a small country like Ireland over Canada" So once again here I'm saying that Ireland is small.
"Canada isn't a world power but it is significantly more important then Ireland (imo anyway)". This is where I probably caused confusion. At this stage I have been saying that Canada is larger and more significant then Ireland. This probably caused confusion because it sounded like I was putting Canada on an equal setting with Ireland previously when I actually wasn't. I never said the two countries were equal, it was just misinterpreted that way. I was saying at the start that Jivvi would have put a Canadian in over an Irish person not because they're equally iinsignificant, but because Canada is more significant.
"Canada would also be vastly more significant then somewhere like New Zealand which is why I picked Canada in my example."
This is pretty self explanatory. I could understand confusion on other parts but people thought it was weird that I chose Canada when the only other options for me were New Zealand and Guyana which I showed by the map.
"Having only one little country among all those giants just seemed wrong."
Now looking back, this is definitely where it appeared I was changing my stance. While saying that Canada was more significant then Ireland and "larger", it is still a "small" country in comparison to the other giants. I said in a later post that little was the wrong word to use, and it was, Canada is not small, more.... less significant. Remember, I never put Canada and Ireland on equal footing in the first place. Notice here that I called the other countries giants whereas I was only calling Canada large before. I am not putting Canada on an equal footing with the "Big Three". See the below graph.

So I think so far the misunderstanding had been not recognising when I was comparing Canada to Ireland and when I was comparing Canada to the larger countries.
I'll write the second part of the post up after lunch. I'll divide it into two.

 

[Nottykitten]

He used colors and bold like the prophecy foretold

 

[Enderfive]

i kinda want to lynch between notty, rune, aqua, hk and inf today, more or less in that order

notty is literally trolling iggy at this point, the "contradiction" about country sizes is completely irrelevant in terms of who maf is, it seems less like notty's trying to actively scumhunt and more like she's just trying to lynch an easy target

rune was quiet in the beginning and has now become more or less active, just in time to support notty in her absurd quest to lynch iggy

aqua has done nothing but bandwagon things that might look like shit that town would want to do

hk and inf are more likely to be town imo but there's a few interactions with notty and rune and iggy that give vibes™

erik and oog seem most likely to be town imo