The Bastard Game: Day 5

Nottykitten

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So why did I tell you I couldn't save you then :thinking: if I was Mafia and did that you'd be dead easy tonight. Unless you're assuming the Mafia can't bypass names in which case fair enough.
Like you said yourself, to explain for when I would die during the night because if town thought you could save me and you couldn't youd be lynched dead.

What exactly are you saying here, about the link between me wanting you to claim your name and our supposed plan falling through?
That a clear change in direction of what you and Jivvi were doing was there once you realised your plan was falling through, and you two transitioning to your new plan which involved pushing for my name more for some reason (maybe solely to have Jivvi disagree some more idk).

I don't find it unlikely at all that Jivvi would want to signal to me who his Mafia buddies are considering how I saved his life from you, so to think I was lying and not actually Mafia would have been quite absurd to him probably, so of course he'd want to let me know who his team are so that I didn't push on them too hard and get them lynched. The first signal he gave to me was Arelic, who I'd been pushing on quite hard iirc, and then when I demonstrated to him that I understood his ratings as signals by suddenly backing off Arelic, he probably saw it as an oppurtunity to make sure I didn't try to tunnel vision anyone else on his team. Nipping my suspicions in the bud before they become something substantial and spread to others is the best method of doing this because it'd look 10x more suspicious if I suddenly backed off Oak/Arelic/Ltin after 10 pages of solid arguments against them and so it'd be too late to turn back and it'd risk their lives. I agree though, it's entirely possible he wasn't genuinely fooled by me but we'll have to see.
Rule #1 if you're Mafia is don't tell others who your Mafia teammates are, it's not that hard and Jivvi had 0 reason signal you with anything unless you were either working together or he was tricking you. You seem so set on trying to convince us Jivvi was stupid enough to give away all his teammates when in reality not only was there 0 incentive for him to do so but I'd think Jivvi wouldn't just give them away. I dont even remember you having any kind of push onto Arelic besides one or two posts which have 0 evidence or solid logic so why would any sane Mafia member go out of his way to tell someone that he wasn't told by Ender is Mafia go about and give away all his fellow Mafia members. It doesn't make sense, let alone the fact that nobody knows her name so she couldn't even be lynched. I don't believe this Jivvi giving his teammates away 1 bit, if it isn't a play by you and Jivvi then Jivvi is tricking you.

Also, as I said before, and as I showed with a screenshot, Runemen4 rated his post on Oak after Jivvi at least, so either he can confirm when he did that, or, if it's allowed, you can check his rating activity via his profile and see when he rated it, which I'm pretty sure is a while before, in your head, things go south for us, meaning Jivvi rated it before then even, meaning your theory about Jivvi going back and rating posts within the last couple days is incorrect.
Actually we can't because if you remove a rating it also removes the history in your recent activity and stuff so its poof gone never to be found again, which is kind of my bad for not realising to check it after you made your post.

I did not wait 'super long' with giving my transcript, I waited until Ender confirmed it. You can see that's true by seeing the timestamps of when you told me to make the transcript, when I said I'd sent it to Ender, and when I sent it in.
You could of easely lied about sending it to Ender and instead worked on it for a while to try and make sure it complements your story so far and discuss it with Jivvi in your Mafia daychat.

And no, my entire argument/defence does not rely on Jivvi giving his teammates away for "no reason", he had every reason to think I was Mafia and every reason to think he could trust me and every reason to think that it was a good idea to let me know who not to push on before it got out of hand.
If I claimed Mafia and told someone they were gonna die tonight(which I can't see Jivvi doing), and that person suddenly says 'wait I'm actually undercover don't kill me I'm one of you!!!!!' I'd totally believe them yes! He totally had every reason to believe you except he didn't because why in the world would he believe someone he just said he was going to kill. Don't try and flatter yourself by saying you're just that good because I think more highly of Jivvi to fall for this claim let alone give away his Mafia team to it.

- Why would Jivvi suddenly claim Mafia in this inn instead of just not speaking and killing Inf?
He did not speak at first, like I've said/implied a lot. But then when Dess claimed, he spoke, I'm assuming because he saw an oppurtunity to get Dess on his side. If he had remained hidden, Dess could've easily spoken about Jivvi's suspicious silence the next day, but Dess's claim provided Jivvi with a way of getting another Mafia member (effectively) and getting away with doing whatever he wanted in the inn, because he would kill me.

- Why would Jivvi reveal to dess and Inf that they can kill through the name-swap mechanic?
Why not? He was convinced enough I was going to die tonight so why not tell me how and give Dess, his ally, some new information in the process? You can read the transcript to get an idea of the context in which he said it.
Why risk it? Why risk exposing yourself and giving away Mafia secrets when you can either just be completely silent or simply go with a plan where he simply gets everyone to claim flavour names. Hell you said the name you gave wasn't long enough that alone would be reason for Jivvi to doubt the actual working of this inn. I read the transcript and like I've said before I'm not convinced at all that Jivvi would do any of these things.

- Inf claims he can't invite himself to the Inn yet his 'fake claim' towards Jivvi in the inn transcript seems to rely on Inf being able to make another night chat with Jivvi the night after. This doesn't add up.
??? Why does this not add up? Am I not allowed to lie about my role in my fake claim or what?
It doesn't add up because you said this in your 'great' plan post:
1. Get Notty to claim their name, invite them to an inn with Danni with an inn title that explains as much as I can in the words I have, wait for the morning to see if I get a message from the Mafia communicator to give me any more information so that I’d have something more concrete when I claimed everything, and if I die in the night (which I shouldn’t because my claim is that I can only stop Mafia kills so theoretically any serial killer wouldn’t need me to be dead, but it’s still a possibility that my rolename would be targeted) then at least Notty and Danni could pass on the information and piece things together.
Oh hello your plan involved keeping Jivvi alive and then telling us all the juicy Info during the night but you couldn't tell us at all because you wouldn't be in the inn since you can't invite yourself. This is not only a fault in your town-plan, but also a fault in your fake claim towards Jivvi, because you told Jivvi you would make another Inn with him and someone else so if he won't be in an inn the night after he'd kill you immediately without you having the ability to pass your info on. It doesn't add up because your fake claim towards Jivvi ends up with you dying because you can't re-add Jivvi and with the Town ending up with no Info since you can't pass your info when you die during the night.


As I've said before, the Mafia can bypass the mechanic. She will be a whole lot less vulnerable to death if she just claimed her name.

Meanwhile welcome back to me and Iggish against the world (although this time we're probably both town </3)

notty C L A I M
The only way I see you being town is if Jivvi lied to you and still tried to kill you tonight, meaning Jivvi's the one that can supposedly charge up abilities and the nightkill went to flavour Inf when he got blocked. We're lynching Jivvi so they can't bypass it anymore after today, and go ahead call me out on resting alot on this theory but the only alternative to you being town is that Jivvi was extremely stupid and I simply don't believe that. And if Jivvi dies and doesn't turn out to be the upcharger or whatever that role is called then I guess you know what I think of you during the night.

Well I've done all I could, your choice I guess.

I'll invite Arelic, One one two and Jivvi to an inn tonight, and I'll call it 'Notty's Funeral' <3

(did you actually read my big post refuting your points yet)
Sounds good to me, go ahead and invite them to put in your action as we'll probs end the day shortly and if you truely are town wouldn't want to waste that. I agree with adding Danni(flavour) One to it maybe he can do something with his ability and the ones in the inn.
 
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Danni122112

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Well I've done all I could, your choice I guess.

I'll invite Arelic, One one two and Jivvi to an inn tonight, and I'll call it 'Notty's Funeral' <3

(did you actually read my big post refuting your points yet)
I was just going to write a post about "WHY DONT I GET INVITED TO THE BEER PARTY" and then I saw your post a bit below, and realised im 112 lol
 

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Rule #1 if you're Mafia is don't tell others who your Mafia teammates are, it's not that hard and Jivvi had 0 reason signal you with anything unless you were either working together or he was tricking you. You seem so set on trying to convince us Jivvi was stupid enough to give away all his teammates when in reality not only was there 0 incentive for him to do so but I'd think Jivvi wouldn't just give them away. I dont even remember you having any kind of push onto Arelic besides one or two posts which have 0 evidence or solid logic so why would any sane Mafia member go out of his way to tell someone that he wasn't told by Ender is Mafia go about and give away all his fellow Mafia members. It doesn't make sense, let alone the fact that nobody knows her name so she couldn't even be lynched. I don't believe this Jivvi giving his teammates away 1 bit, if it isn't a play by you and Jivvi then Jivvi is tricking you.
Jivvi was pushing for a mass claim of names so it makes sense he would want to signal me of who not to push on. A massclaim of names would've been inevitable eventually anyway.

Actually we can't because if you remove a rating it also removes the history in your recent activity and stuff so its poof gone never to be found again, which is kind of my bad for not realising to check it after you made your post.
You can check rune's rating post history and see when his is, and know (using my screenshot) that he rated it after Jivvi, and thus Jivvi rated it before Rune did.

If I claimed Mafia and told someone they were gonna die tonight(which I can't see Jivvi doing), and that person suddenly says 'wait I'm actually undercover don't kill me I'm one of you!!!!!' I'd totally believe them yes! He totally had every reason to believe you except he didn't because why in the world would he believe someone he just said he was going to kill. Don't try and flatter yourself by saying you're just that good because I think more highly of Jivvi to fall for this claim let alone give away his Mafia team to it.
Because he wasn't thinking straight + he didn't believe me until I knew both of his names, and at that point the only two options in his head were "either he's interrogator or he's telling the truth", so then my point about the title being weird pushed him to believing I'm telling the truth. The reason he said he's mafia is because he needs to tell dess quickly and he's in a lie detector so 1) he can't use communicator since it's too slow and 2) he can't lie

I acknowledged the possibility that Jivvi has tricked me but I'm not going to assume so until Arelic/Ltin/Oak are proven to be town.

Why risk it? Why risk exposing yourself and giving away Mafia secrets when you can either just be completely silent or simply go with a plan where he simply gets everyone to claim flavour names. Hell you said the name you gave wasn't long enough that alone would be reason for Jivvi to doubt the actual working of this inn. I read the transcript and like I've said before I'm not convinced at all that Jivvi would do any of these things.
What plan where he simply gets flavour names, what? And the inn name wasn't long enough at first, but that was before they'd read the thread. I changed it, since Ender let me.


It doesn't add up because you said this in your 'great' plan post:

Oh hello your plan involved keeping Jivvi alive and then telling us all the juicy Info during the night but you couldn't tell us at all because you wouldn't be in the inn since you can't invite yourself. This is not only a fault in your town-plan, but also a fault in your fake claim towards Jivvi, because you told Jivvi you would make another Inn with him and someone else so if he won't be in an inn the night after he'd kill you immediately without you having the ability to pass your info on. It doesn't add up because your fake claim towards Jivvi ends up with you dying because you can't re-add Jivvi and with the Town ending up with no Info since you can't pass your info when you die during the night.
I've literally addressed this earlier u g h

As you literally quote, I say that I need to explain it in the title, in the few words I have. Because I can't join the inn.

I didn't come up with the long-term-trick-jivvi plan until the morning so I wasn't genuinely thinking I could invite Jivvi to an inn the next day, that was all lies to get him to trust me. I was planning on pretending I'd had a change of plans or something and see if Jivvi bought it. I disagree this would have led to my death, and even if it did, in this very same plan I was outing all my info to you and danni so it wouldn't matter, and if the plan worked we'd all survive and I'd get more info to pass on.



The only way I see you being town is if Jivvi lied to you and still tried to kill you tonight, meaning Jivvi's the one that can supposedly charge up abilities and the nightkill went to flavour Inf when he got blocked. We're lynching Jivvi so they can't bypass it anymore after today, and go ahead call me out on resting alot on this theory but the only alternative to you being town is that Jivvi was extremely stupid and I simply don't believe that. And if Jivvi dies and doesn't turn out to be the upcharger or whatever that role is called then I guess you know what I think of you during the night.
Maybe he is tricking me, we'll see.

Sounds good to me, go ahead and invite them to put in your action as we'll probs end the day shortly and if you truely are town wouldn't want to waste that. I agree with adding Danni(flavour) One to it maybe he can do something with his ability and the ones in the inn.
I already have and I don't care what you think of me during the night because guess what you're going to die <3
 
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Nottykitten

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Also Inf do you think it's 100% certain a Vigilante killed someone tonight? I find it pretty weird a vig would kill someone n1
Ignore me slightly since I wanted to make a point but realized part of it was wrong.

Nevertheless if Jivvi supposedly chooses the kill and got blocked then that would mean two others besides Mafia killed which I also find unlikely.
 
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Infected_alien8_

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Also Inf do you think it's 100% certain a Vigilante killed someone tonight? I find it pretty weird a vig would kill someone n1
Possibly, or the other theory I have is that Jivvi doesn't carry out the kill and him changing the kill = / = him doing it, and that the Mafia chose to kill TWG last night instead of you.
 

Nottykitten

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I acknowledged the possibility that Jivvi has tricked me but I'm not going to assume so until Arelic/Ltin/Oak are proven to be town.
This is as rich as me insisting on my sanity but we can all have our gut feelings I guess <3

Maybe he is tricking me, we'll see.


I already have and I don't care what you think of me during the night because guess what you're going to die <3
I guess we will see.


End him I don't think we have anything else to discuss and may the odds be ever in your favour
 

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This is as rich as me insisting on my sanity but we can all have our gut feelings I guess <3


I guess we will see.


End him I don't think we have anything else to discuss and may the odds be ever in your favour
No, the difference is that you wouldn't accept that you were wrong. I've said since the beginning "I DON'T KNOW IF THESE ARE LEGIT OR JIVVI HAS LIED" so don't paint me with your stubbornness brush <3
 

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I decided to post this now because I have 4 out of probably 5 Mafia members and it’d be fun to actually have to scumhunt for the remaining one and third parties. Also people keep claiming unnecessarily because of this whole charade, Oog just claimed, and I’m walking a very fine line between being helpful to town and being detrimental, especially since the signals may not be entirely accurate.
This is like 1 of 10 times at least where I've said this info could be wrong