Mafia: Saints & Sinners - GAME OVER MAFIA WIN

[Infected_alien8_]

Have you done that to Tim before? or were you blocked

i visited tim last night, but tim's saying he didnt get the message to say it happened, so i must have been either blocked or redirected somehow

 

[Stranger from Myst Island]

Votecount 2: Will We Reach 100 Pages???​

Infected_Alien8_ - HKCaper, Alisha, Good Skele [L-2]

With 8 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch and 4 votes to no-lynch. If no player has a majority of votes by the deadline, the player with the most votes will be lynched, so long as they have more than one vote on them.

Day 3 Deadline

 

[Timdood3]

im going to repeat this in bold since i think its probably the #1 argument for my defence

Sure it can't be discarded entirely but it could be a wifom gambit.

seriously i want an answer from everyone voting me, why did i claim the role that i did, knowing i would look bad about it today, instead of claiming sinner and not having to worry about that? what was the purpose behind that?

if you can think of something then ill admit im the best lynch today, otherwise your reason for voting me has a huge hole in it, and if youre ignoring that youre either forgetting we're in mylo or you're scum

So the question boils down to "Why wouldn't I claim sinner?"
Because you know that hiding in the sinner pool is dangerous.

i visited tim last night, but tim's saying he didnt get the message to say it happened, so i must have been either blocked or redirected somehow

You don't get any sort of confirmation?

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Sure it can't be discarded entirely but it could be a wifom gambit.

it could be but there's no reason for me to make this wifom gambit instead of taking the 'safe' route of not getting myself into this mess

So the question boils down to "Why wouldn't I claim sinner?"
Because you know that hiding in the sinner pool is dangerous.

hiding in the sinner pool is safer than claiming a role that will inevitably get me in the spotlight like this, surely

You don't get any sort of confirmation?

nope

 

[Infected_alien8_]

im going to bed, i request that nobody hammer me until i can make one final argument for why i am town this game (involving some admittedly shaky arguments but im just throwing in everything ive got). theres no reason to not at least give me the chance to do that. ive almost finished it so ill post it soon after i wake up tomorrow.

 

[HKCaper]

seriously i want an answer from everyone voting me, why did i claim the role that i did, knowing i would look bad about it today, instead of claiming sinner and not having to worry about that? what was the purpose behind that?

I remember this exact thing happening when you wanted people to explain how aqua's role could possibly be town...

You just made a bold play to see if you could. You and playing safe? Unheard of. There's your reasoning.

 

[BetaPanda]

im going to bed, i request that nobody hammer me until i can make one final argument for why i am town this game (involving some admittedly shaky arguments but im just throwing in everything ive got). theres no reason to not at least give me the chance to do that. ive almost finished it so ill post it soon after i wake up tomorrow.

Let’s hear what Inffy has to say ?

 

[HKCaper]

Let’s hear what Inffy has to say ?

yes and then he can go bye bye

 

[BetaPanda]

and i brought beta up several times but noone ever agreed

people seriously need to stop underestimating beta

okay

 

[Infected_alien8_]

I remember this exact thing happening when you wanted people to explain how aqua's role could possibly be town...

what?

You just made a bold play to see if you could. You and playing safe? Unheard of. There's your reasoning.

id play unsafe if there was a reason for it

in this case it would just be making a stupid move with no benefit

dont forget this is a team game so if you think i risked that for 0 reason other than 'to see if i could', even though it could hurt my team, then think again

sadly my draft for why i am town has left this realm of existence so ill re-type it now real quick.

like i said, these points arent great, but hopefully theyll be enough to make someone reconsider even a tiny bit.

1) day 0 i brought up that town could no-lynch to gain an extra night. an extra night for town before mylo is an extremely valuable resource, so yes whilst i couldve said this as mafia to gain town cred, it wouldve been a better idea to keep quiet about it since there was no sign that anyone else was thinking of this and i could get town credit in other ways while also making life far easier for myself by not bringing up the extra night bonus i saw. yes, i know i eventually lynched in the end, but i told you all that i would only lynch if i was confident. this means i was setting myself in a trap to only ever be able to lynch if i could convince you all i was confident. obviously that wasnt necessarily going to happen, it couldve easily been a day where noone said anything that i could latch onto to find 'suspicious' without looking desperate and suspicious myself, so as scum i wouldve been taking a big risk here of giving town an extra night.

2) as soon as night 1 ended, i began asking people whether they had made a deal with the devil night 1, or whether they thought it would've been a good idea. the reason for this is because of my role, i obviously needed to know if anyone had made a deal that night so i could undo it. if you can think of another reason i might have asked this very specific question and made sure i asked everybody in the thread and bugged people who wouldnt answer and refused to even place a vote before every player had answered, then sure go for it, but otherwise your only option is to believe that i had this claim in my mind at the start of day 1. you might say i had a fakeclaim ready night 1 but thats excessive lets be real, if i was mafia i knew very little about the setup at that point because noone had claimed except sinners, and noone had died, so the idea of making a fakeclaim night 1 when its extremely unlikely a massclaim would come up is a stretch imo.

3) again, i claimed this role. knowing that tim had made a deal with the devil. knowing he could ask me to undo it and prove myself. when there was an easy sinner claim i could claim instead. dont forget i claimed before aqua did so i had no idea the sinner pool was about to shrink by 2 players (tim and alisha) being proven sinner. i dont disagree that i take risky plays, but i take them because theres something to get out of them. in this case there would be nothing positive to get out of claiming this role instead of sinner. if you can think of something im all ears but nobody has so far. im not a suicidal and i wouldnt put my team at risk for no reason. i know claiming a role id have to prove would put me in a tight spot, and by the time i claimed yesterday i was in a fine position where nobody except alisha seemed to suspect me.

so yeah thats it. if this doesnt convince anyone then ill hammer myself to not drag things out any longer than they need to, since this is my last hope at convincing anyone i think, but hey when i flip town dont say i didnt try my best to change your minds <3

 

[Infected_alien8_]

but hey when i flip town dont say i didnt try my best to change your minds <3

(not that id blame any of you since realistically its only reasonable you suspect me, and i understand that, this wasnt meant to be like a 'tee-hee im gonna flip town and its your fault!' but when i re-read it i think it comes off like that)

 

[Timdood3]

As much as I hate it, I think inf may actually be town.

So inf...Assuming we live in a world where I believe you, who's your ideal lynch today? Is it beta?

 

[Alisha]

i
don't
believe
any
of
this
you
are
letting
him
emotionally
manipulate
you

 

[HKCaper]

what?

we had a whole bit where i was trying to convince you aqua's role could actually exist, and you couldnt see it, dont what me you punk.
it was part of the whole 50/50 bit you did.

remember now? dont make me quote the whole convo

 

[Alisha]

all game inf has been creating as much doubt as possible in everybody and not offering or pushing solutions at the same rate as he's casting doubt

he's literally satan

and i've called him satan jokingly in previous games

but he's literally THE satan in this one!

 

[HKCaper]

you barely have anything supporting your claim

the only way your claim makes any sense is if theres a hypnotist role, which weve seen 0 evidence of yet. which youve agreed with??

i dont get why people are acting like im throwing doubt at aqua when im doing the exact opposite

I just dont agree that having a hypnotist as you said be NECESSARY for aqua's role.

i mean unless you can think of another use for it ?‍

i was argueing aqua was town

some snippets

 

[HKCaper]

remember 'i think aqua is town but there is a 50/50 chance he's scum since his role cant exist in the setup'

 

[Alisha]

remember 'i think aqua is town but there is a 50/50 chance he's scum since his role cant exist in the setup'

THIS EXACTLY.

 

[Timdood3]

Like...I'm ok with an inf lynch in that I still think it's probably town's optimal play.
And if inf is town then we got outplayed and I guess I can live with that?
Either way I don't see a way this game ends without us lynching inf sooner or later...

This will almost certainly be my last post of the day as I'm about to go to bed, so I'm going to vote, but just in case inf is town and the game doesn't end, let the record show that I'm not super thrilled about it.
(But I also suck at mafia so)
(plus I'm white so)

 

[Timdood3]

Oh yeah I said I was going to vote but got distracted by my own memes.
I need to go to bed

Vote infected_alien8

 

[Stranger from Myst Island]

Votecount 3: There is a House in New Orleans...​

Infected_Alien8_ - HKCaper, Alisha, Good Skele, Timdood3 [L-1]

With 8 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch and 4 votes to no-lynch. If no player has a majority of votes by the deadline, the player with the most votes will be lynched, so long as they have more than one vote on them.

Day 3 Deadline

 

[HKCaper]

just do us a favor and hammer yourself thx

 

[Infected_alien8_]

we had a whole bit where i was trying to convince you aqua's role could actually exist, and you couldnt see it, dont what me you punk.
it was part of the whole 50/50 bit you did.

remember now? dont make me quote the whole convo

no thats not what i was saying. i was saying that i think aqua's role can only exist if there's a hypnotist role. but i was saying i believed the hypnotist role does exist. i gave out an entire list of reasons for why i thought a hypnotist role was in the setup despite the lack of evidence. thats why i said i thought aqua was town.

all game inf has been creating as much doubt as possible in everybody and not offering or pushing solutions at the same rate as he's casting doubt

he's literally satan

and i've called him satan jokingly in previous games

but he's literally THE satan in this one!

psh... mortals

some snippets

looks like i was right back then, and you did misunderstand what i was saying. here, a snippet of my own:

aqua's claim, if it is true, only targets townies and prevents them from being able to make a deal - and can also see if people are a town sinner or not.

this claim makes sense, but imo, only if we assume that the mafia have a way to influence town sinners decision to make a deal, because including a role in the setup that's only purpose is to prevent townies from making a choice thats theirs to make doesnt seem likely to me at all.

that must mean there's a role out there who can force town sinners to make a deal, and aqua's role would be town's only chance of preventing it, while ever that role is alive.

assuming you agree with everything ive said so far, and bearing in mind we havent seen any evidence of that yet, that means in order to believe aqua is telling the truth about his claim, we have to explain why theres been no evidence of such a role.

i have some theories myself:
- its an X-shot role, and they havent used it yet.
- they used it on the players aqua targetted, on at least one night
- they used it on saints, on at least one night
- they used it on fog, who already made a deal himself
- they used it on the devil, because they dont know who it is
- they did use it on people but the recipient only gets told about it the following night, and n1 they targetted sessy

all of these theories individually seem unlikely, and some of the options would require maf to be making ? plays by not targeting claimed sinners, though its not impossible. however, to believe that none of them are true, and that aqua's role is therefore useless, and aqua is therefore lying and is scum, is to also believe that the reason for the nokill night 1 wasnt because hk saved aqua (because otherwise aqua would be town), but because of some other reason, like the mafia targeted the devil and theyre bp.

imo, we have no real reason to believe that one of those scenarios is more likely than the other. the chance of the maf not knowing who the devil is or something is about the same as the chance that the hypnotist role exists but is X-shot, or one of the other examples i gave. there's no reason to lean either way atm.

and so my conclusion is that, at this point in the game, its like a 50/50 as to whether aqua's role is legit or not, when looking at it in isolation.

so at that point i decide to look past his claim and instead go back to his behaviour/vibes, in which case i still actually lean town.

remember 'i think aqua is town but there is a 50/50 chance he's scum since his role cant exist in the setup'

thats also not what i said. i said there's a 50/50 his role would be scum/town looking at it in isolation, but outside of the role i thought aqua was town. i specified this 50/50 comment was in isolation multiple times, and said that my point was that the role could go either way, just like UNUs, so i wanted to look past that when making my read on him. i did explain this already. for example:

genuinely i dont understand why both of you got that impression

ive said over and over that i think youre town

the 50/50 point is me saying "the claim could go either way, so im not lynching based on it, i want to look at him outside of his claim, for which i think hes town"

but you two seem to misinterpret it as me saying "aqua has a 50% chance of being scum so lets lynch him" but that wasnt what i said at any point

and i certainly never, ever said that his role cant exist in the setup. i said the opposite, as you can see in my "snippet" that i quoted above.

the fact you and alisha are misunderstanding my points so much this game is sad

 

[TheWeakGuy48_]

HAMMERTIME!!!

vote infected

 

[Stranger from Myst Island]

Day 3 Final Votecount​

Infected_Alien8_ - HKCaper, Alisha, Good Skele, Timdood3, TheWeakGuy48_

After a long, intense day it looked like the people of New Orleans had finally come to a consensus that infected_alien8_ deserved to die. The cityfolk swarmed around infected_alien8_, tied him up and pointed their guns straight at him. "Any last words?" one townsfolk called out. "Well, it's been a great time here in New Orleans, folks." infected_alien8_ replied, "But I think it's about time that I skipped town." And with that, infected_alien8_ disappeared in a puff of black smoke leaving behind only a faint smell of brimstone and a calling card that said "See you folks on the other side".

Infected_alien8_ was The Devil. They were Mafia-aligned.

Spoiler: The Devil

Welcome to Saints & Sinners, infected_alien8_.

Your role is The Devil. You are Mafia-Aligned.

You are the Devil, though you often go by the name Louis Cypher when dealing with mortals. Each night, you will gain a list of sinners who wish to make deals with you and the single-use actions they wish to receive. For the purposes of tracking, making a deal with or penalizing any player will not appear as a visit. Neither accepting a deal with a sinner nor penalizing a sinner counts as a night action. You may choose whether or not you wish to accept a deal with each sinner. Be warned that if you decline more than half of all deal offers each night (rounded down), each player who had their offer declined will receive a clue as to your identity. If any player receives 2 or more clues, your identity will be revealed to them.
If you agree to a deal, you may also choose to issue one of the of following penalties to the player with whom you made a deal:
-Cause the player’s selected action to automatically fail if used on one player of your choosing (you may choose yourself). The player will not be notified of this penalty.
-Force the player to say one phrase of your choosing during the day in order to receive the action. This phrase may be no longer than 300 characters (spaces included). The player will be notified of this penalty.
-Prevent the player from voting for one other player of your choosing the following day (you may choose yourself). The player will be notified about this penalty. This penalty may only be issued once per night phase.

Win Condition: Gain factional control of the daily lynch vote.

Night 4 is now beginning, please submit your actions in your role PMs. Hard deadline for Night 4 will be 00:00 hours UTC on 11 June 2020 (approximately 32 hours from this post).