Changing "Reference"

[Defiant_Blob]

Right now, the requirement for many staff applications are a certain number of "references".

I put "references" in quotes because they really aren't references. A reference would be more as to a staff saying a player that they should apply, without the player asking.

Furthermore, the "reference" brings about confusion. Players often place people as references because they showed them how to apply. As well, as can be seen by many appeals, they misinterpret the meaning of "reference".

Therefore, I suggest we change the name of "reference" to something else, such as "supporting staff" or others. This will help decrease the confusion in applications.

As well, do not say "there will still be someone who gets confused". There will always be someone who gets confused. The goal of this change is to not remove all confusion, but to help remove at least some. If it helps at all, why not?

Questions, comments, general disapproval of change?

 

[Pick Yer Poison]

"Backers."

 

[Nillbugwtw]

Think about real-world scenarios. You want to apply for a job, and you need references - people who can, if needbe, vouch for your "usefulness", for lack of a better word. You approach them about being your reference. I think that translates well enough into how Staff apps work that "reference" is appropriate.

 

[Defiant_Blob]

Well, that is true. However, not all people think of reference in that way, as shown by the many confused applicants.

 

[Duffie]

Honestly, I think the people who take references the wrong way are getting the right idea, only they're thinking about people that they think would refer them, instead of asking people for their referral.

I'm sure out of the people who actually know what references are, but get the wrong idea, they don't know it has to be someone they have to ask in order to get their referral.

 

[Defiant_Blob]

I'm sure out of the people who actually know what references are, but get the wrong idea, they don't know it has to be someone they have to ask in order to get their referral.

And perhaps changing the name will help them understand.

Also, look at Prizym's case. I've seen tons of people that misunderstood like him. I as well.

 

[Alkatraz]

I think the problem is, regardless of what we describe it as, people are going to get confused.

Why change it away from the logical parallel with the real world as Nillbugwtw said.

 

[Defiant_Blob]

I think the problem is, regardless of what we describe it as, people are going to get confused.

Why change it away from the logical parallel with the real world as Nillbugwtw said.

I explained in the first post. Nothing will ever be able to help people always understand. But if it helps at all, why not?

Why have police? There will always be people able to break the law and get away with it. Let's just give up, eh?

You say why do it? If it helps anyone, why not? With all those ratings on my OP, you can see some people agree that it would help someone.

 

[Alkatraz]

Why have police? There will always be people able to break the law and get away with it. Let's just give up, eh?

In this parallel, it is more:

The police aren't doing a good job, so let's rename them "trouble preventers". We're still going to have the same issue, just with a different name.

I do see your point about the confusion, so perhaps the best option is to just have a bit of a description on all the application formats making it a clearer. For example this is what is currently shown on the TNT Trusted Application Form:

You require at LEAST one Operator+ reference. Trusteds cannot reference. To ask someone for a reference, simply ask "Hello, may I ask you for a reference for my Trusted Application?" or something similar. Do not put people who you THINK will reference you, they must agree.

The Zombie server mentions "Which staff members have referenced you/ told you directly that they want you to apply for Trusted?" which does help a little in explaining what a reference is, but not to the same extent.

 

[Defiant_Blob]

In this parallel, it is more:

The police aren't doing a good job, so let's rename them "trouble preventers". We're still going to have the same issue, just with a different name.

Well, actually, the comparison there is way wrong. The name of the police aren't stopping law breakers. The police themselves do. In this case, the change I would make is to increase the budget of the police or otherwise.

However, there is still no reason for there not to be a name change, as it will help some.

Though, we could also add the descriptions.

 

[Friendy]

Well, actually, the comparison there is way wrong. The name of the police aren't stopping law breakers. The police themselves do. In this case, the change I would make is to increase the budget of the police or otherwise.

However, there is still no reason for there not to be a name change, as it will help some.

Though, we could also add the descriptions.

Why bother changing the name if people are getting confused, if they will continue to get confused? It may only take a simple edit of a staff application format to fix the slightest of confusion as Alkatraz said. If users are getting confused even when it directly tells them "Which staff members have referenced you/ told you directly that they want you to apply for Trusted?" then we cannot do much about that, as that is extremely hard to not understand what that means.

 

[Defiant_Blob]

AngelWV You guys are going on about the same problem as someone did with the Banned button. NOTHING will completely fix confusion. Alkatraz's fix will not stop all the confusion.

The goal of my fix is to help stop at least part of the confusion, which has been shown that it will by the amount of support and the amount of players I've seen like Prizyms.

So, I've told you why. So, why not? It takes about 5 minutes of effort to change all applications.

 

[UltimateBudgie]

But Defiant_Blob I think you're missing the main point.

As Alkatraz said, the name "Reference" is paralled to that of the real world and is thus helping people get it correct. If we change the name, we may make it less confusing for other people... but more confusing for the people who would've understood it in the first place!

The point is, the word doesn't matter. So long as the application questions are explained well enough then that is the best we can do! The main change that needs to be made is to make sure all application formats are detailed enough :)

 

[Defiant_Blob]

Well, the application isn't the only place where they learn about references however.
In-game, IRC, TS, and elsewhere when a player asks about references, it'd be quite tedious to have to explain exactly what a reference is. Meanwhile, using something as simple as "Backer" is understood much more easily than "reference".

 

[UltimateBudgie]

Meanwhile, using something as simple as "Backer" is understood much more easily than "reference".

Re-read my post

Just because you think Backer is more easily understood... doesn't mean everyone does?

 

[Duffie]

Meanwhile, using something as simple as "Backer" is understood much more easily than "reference".

I think PYP was joking when he suggested that... o. o

 

[Defiant_Blob]

UltimateBudgie Well, I'd suggest a poll to see which is more understood, but mostly people who understand references would see it. What do you suggest to see which is more understood by new players.

Duffie Even so, 'tis a good name

 

[Duffie]

Perhaps we shouldn't change the name, as it is possibly the best thing to use.

ref·er·ence (r

f

r-

ns, r

f

r

ns)
n.

a. A person who is in a position to recommend another or to vouch for his or her fitness, as for a job.
b. A statement about a person's qualifications, character, and dependability.

The only thing people keep getting wrong is asking for the reference. They just go right out and suggest that the people that helped then out count as a reference, believing they are people who could refer them.

All we need to do is add a clear definition as to what we mean by a reference, if the one we currently have is not enough. When I first got here, I was always nervous of asking people for references for my Operator Application. I'd also have to say that I didn't know I had to get permission at the time, but some people helped me through that.

People who don't understand just have to ask, which can be tedious to people who answer the same question all the time.

Which will then lead to the people answering the question getting mad at the person who asked the question.

Then the person who asked will be confused as to why the person he asked is getting mad.
... Basically, a better definition is what we need, if we can't handle the people smart enough to ask if they do not already know.

The people who don't even ask, and post with something not even close, and not to be mean, but, then there's probably no hope for them in becoming staff. You'll need to have clear knowledge of what to do, and if you don't have that knowledge, you gain it by asking for assistance from people who do have this knowledge.

So, in the end, I'll have to say I disagree with changing the name of "Reference". I propose, if anything, we add or change the description of reference, or at least note to ask any questions if deemed necessary.

 

[Friendy]

Something I summed up during my hospitality lessons today is that, possibly, users could use /reference and find out how to get one and see if anyone has referenced them. Staff could use something like /reference add Defiant_Blob which would add them to your reference list.

This would help alot In my opinion, If users knew about this command then we wouldn't have to worry about this; though users would need to find out about the command.

 

[Hunter]

Something I summed up during my hospitality lessons today is that, possibly, users could use /reference and find out how to get one and see if anyone has referenced them. Staff could use something like /reference add Defiant_Blob which would add them to your reference list.

This would help alot In my opinion, If users knew about this command then we wouldn't have to worry about this; though users would need to find out about the command.

http://www.blocktopia.net/forum/threads/reference-command-for-op.6154/

 

[Defiant_Blob]

"The people who don't even ask, and post with something not even close, and not to be mean, but, then there's probably no hope for them in becoming staff."

Not all people here are fluent in English. It's actually quite easy for a person who's notquite fluent to misunderstand.

Also, it'd be tedious for me to just sit all day thinking of every person I'd refer. Then, I might leave someone out by accident who really deserves a reference.

But I'd be good with a name change or better description. Or both. But preferring a name change

 

[Friendy]

"The people who don't even ask, and post with something not even close, and not to be mean, but, then there's probably no hope for them in becoming staff."

Not all people here are fluent in English. It's actually quite easy for a person who's notquite fluent to misunderstand.

Also, it'd be tedious for me to just sit all day thinking of every person I'd refer. Then, I might leave someone out by accident who really deserves a reference.

But I'd be good with a name change or better description. Or both. But preferring a name change

To me, it seems you are contradicting yourself by saying that 'Not all people here are fluent in English' and that they may misunderstand, but how would changing the name fix that? I don't think it should be changed; rather something new introduced like /reference or just a change in format to help people who may get confused.

 

[Duffie]

Now I'm thinking it should just stay the way it is.

Changing it will just cause confusion, not just to those who already know what a reference is, but quite possibly even to those who don't.

It may just help if we keep it as "Reference".

 

[Fatalis]

I think a better word would be "voucher"

 

[UltimateBudgie]

I think a better word would be "voucher"

Does the voucher give you discount rates on staff application merchandise?