Why I really left Blocktopia, and why others will too.
- Thread starter Kordra
- Start date
Calm down, we lived through an admin's post. You don't need to push it.
EDIT: ONE OF 2 GIFS ALIVE. YOU CAN DO IT GIFFY
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First of all, I don't speak for every staff member, I speak only with what I believe are good intentions. Secondly, if I valued the "appearance of civility" over a "discussion" then I would've deleted or locked this thread no questions asked, I chose to make that post in regards to the necessary, pointless, or rather unsavory posts that obstructed conversation and my intentions were to benefit this thread even if my opinions may or may not differ.
Perhaps I should've worded it differently/quoted a different post.
I didn't aim to come across as hostile-in fact, I agree with your stance on the pointless posts.
My statement was referring to the habit some users have of calling for a thread lock whenever said "unsavory" posts crop up, not the way forum mods are currently dealing with the situation.
Going to quickly throw together a story of how new/average players can make a difference in encouraging new players to stick around and make friends
This is example is from one of the servers I enjoyed the most smp but I am sure we can find many ways of applying this to other servers as well.
Back around the time of the beginning of smp4 I had owned premium mc for a good few months and decided to check out the premium blocktopia mc servers for the first time. I had no multiplayer premium experience prior to that so I pick smp at random out of the other servers because I thought it looked cool. Upon joining sure I recognized a few faces from zombie in theses clans so I decided to make my own clan. I met a few new players 200 blocks away from spawn (Lonewolf and ThoughtCarton) and we decided to make a clan. We became known as EMT the clan that always welcomed new players and had 30+ players living in the base during the peak. We made efforts to include new players into our clan for example I would give a diamond to each new member and they would get a gift chest in the gift hall. (which was a way players could gift each other supplies out of niceness) Anyway the point is I made the effort to add all these strangers into the clan and it turned out to be a really fun smp experience . Many of the players that were in EMT stuck around in the community one way or another. This is just my longish ramble of one way just an average/new player can make a difference.
Back around the time of the beginning of smp4 I had owned premium mc for a good few months and decided to check out the premium blocktopia mc servers for the first time. I had no multiplayer premium experience prior to that so I pick smp at random out of the other servers because I thought it looked cool. Upon joining sure I recognized a few faces from zombie in theses clans so I decided to make my own clan. I met a few new players 200 blocks away from spawn (Lonewolf and ThoughtCarton) and we decided to make a clan. We became known as EMT the clan that always welcomed new players and had 30+ players living in the base during the peak. We made efforts to include new players into our clan for example I would give a diamond to each new member and they would get a gift chest in the gift hall. (which was a way players could gift each other supplies out of niceness) Anyway the point is I made the effort to add all these strangers into the clan and it turned out to be a really fun smp experience . Many of the players that were in EMT stuck around in the community one way or another. This is just my longish ramble of one way just an average/new player can make a difference.
I expect someone to welcome a person that joins. Anyone.
Now, I want to try and stay calm, but how the heck is expecting people to be kind and open rude? I didn't know that was only held to "a five-star restaurant". As I person who's been captain of teams (albeit it was for PE, so say what you will, haha), and been a part of different leadership groups, I've always been told to be inviting. Get people involved and try and have fun with them, especially if they don't talk, or don't really like starting the conversation. How about they take a break from their friends and go say hi to that person? I'm sorry, that's rude to expect that from the staff, who's supposed to be leaders for the servers. Screw those shy people, am I right guys?
that was over a year ago, back when I was stupid and 15.. but yeah, I can attest to that unfortunately. I guess it's cool that we can just point out people's mistakes now, not because your backing any kind of reasoning, just to make others look bad, right? This is the kind of elitist and narcissistic behavior I'm trying to abolish, but if everyone is just going to circlejerk this thread into something it's not, I'd like it to be locked.
The Evolution of Arguments In Blocktopia:
Argument is brought up for discussion > Valid and civil discussion among community > Argument begins to get messy with people using Paint to bring up certain points > All out warfare with screaming hatred and insults along with .gif images > Everyone calms down > Everything is forgotten.
Not backing any reasoning? You're complaining that no one will let you join their clique and you didn't consider that might be because your first impression was that you micspam and rage at people?
in conclusion:
- cliques are a potential issue for new players
- we don't get new players since 2013 anyway
- tnt is best server
- fuck those shitty madden gifs
since this is now a dramafest of the worst kind, unless any admins think anyone can get any tangible workable mileage out of this thread or can clean it up better than i can, locked
Since no one figured to remove my permissions to post onto locked threads, here we goo.
This 'type' of thread is not the first of its kind. We all have seen it many times before. Cliques do seem to be a commonplace in the community now, but its of relative human nature. Back in 2009 and 2010, we were a somewhat large family. We had an incalculable amount of new individuals joining and leaving the community daily, we do not experience this anymore, for reasons which are already known and have been stated.
However, as the years progressed, we underwent a more 'clique' atmosphere. Many friends left, arguments erupted, and people became less concerned about Minecraft as a whole. Remaining people had different interests, the remaining TS people generally moved towards other games (League of Legends) and then some others that still played on servers like AoD went onto make TS rooms together. Then we had the Snapflash issue - which is certainly worth mention and seemingly alienated people into private rooms. Private rooms, as most of us know, only allow 8 people per room - so more exclusive groups arose.
Now, I understand the anger regarded in the OP, all of us see it, but what I do not comprehend is the notion of you stating a problem but not coming towards a solution in regards to it. It has done us no good to state a problem of everyone's knowledge, then just have a circlejerk of individuals agreeing with it.
It is a possibility that cliques are inevitable and will not change, that is likely actually. Most of us have been playing Minecraft for years, we have gotten bored of it - again, something we cannot change. Advertisement has become more challenging as a community, we are no longer publicly listed on the main classic page of Minecraft.net gathering new playeys each day. We have survived thus far, going onto 6 years. It is possible that we die in 2015, it is also possible we don't.
Herein this thread, there has been very sound, reasonable, justifiable arguments and thoughts. But, what really ticks me off is the childishness that is displayed by some community members. I do not need to name anyone in specific, because it is likely you know who you are, as if it is almost a form of trolling.
It truly is a shame this thread had to be locked and dealt with in such a poor community manner, because in my honest opinion, this is what will be the ultimate death of issues, the lack of community organization and tact with one another. This could have been discussed immensely more professionally on many different levels - but it was not. I have lacked tact on several instances, which is known, but this supersedes even that.
I would like this community to stay alive, to keep growing and creating new, fun experiences for its members. And if you are reading this; you are a member. If you do not care about the well-being of the community - there is not much point to stick around, if you do - act as such.
I've contacted someone to clean this thread up, and hopefully we can carry on discussions in a tactful, favorable manner, which we are all more than capable of.
This 'type' of thread is not the first of its kind. We all have seen it many times before. Cliques do seem to be a commonplace in the community now, but its of relative human nature. Back in 2009 and 2010, we were a somewhat large family. We had an incalculable amount of new individuals joining and leaving the community daily, we do not experience this anymore, for reasons which are already known and have been stated.
However, as the years progressed, we underwent a more 'clique' atmosphere. Many friends left, arguments erupted, and people became less concerned about Minecraft as a whole. Remaining people had different interests, the remaining TS people generally moved towards other games (League of Legends) and then some others that still played on servers like AoD went onto make TS rooms together. Then we had the Snapflash issue - which is certainly worth mention and seemingly alienated people into private rooms. Private rooms, as most of us know, only allow 8 people per room - so more exclusive groups arose.
Now, I understand the anger regarded in the OP, all of us see it, but what I do not comprehend is the notion of you stating a problem but not coming towards a solution in regards to it. It has done us no good to state a problem of everyone's knowledge, then just have a circlejerk of individuals agreeing with it.
It is a possibility that cliques are inevitable and will not change, that is likely actually. Most of us have been playing Minecraft for years, we have gotten bored of it - again, something we cannot change. Advertisement has become more challenging as a community, we are no longer publicly listed on the main classic page of Minecraft.net gathering new playeys each day. We have survived thus far, going onto 6 years. It is possible that we die in 2015, it is also possible we don't.
Herein this thread, there has been very sound, reasonable, justifiable arguments and thoughts. But, what really ticks me off is the childishness that is displayed by some community members. I do not need to name anyone in specific, because it is likely you know who you are, as if it is almost a form of trolling.
It truly is a shame this thread had to be locked and dealt with in such a poor community manner, because in my honest opinion, this is what will be the ultimate death of issues, the lack of community organization and tact with one another. This could have been discussed immensely more professionally on many different levels - but it was not. I have lacked tact on several instances, which is known, but this supersedes even that.
I would like this community to stay alive, to keep growing and creating new, fun experiences for its members. And if you are reading this; you are a member. If you do not care about the well-being of the community - there is not much point to stick around, if you do - act as such.
I've contacted someone to clean this thread up, and hopefully we can carry on discussions in a tactful, favorable manner, which we are all more than capable of.
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I've unlocked the thread for now and will clean it up. I suggest you read Mikey's post above and carry on. I'm all for discussions like these - if they are fruitful and there is nobody creating pointless arguments. Simply restating the issues will not get anyone closer to any resolutions 
EDIT: Did some cleaning up. If your post was removed and you'd like to know why (any posts of yours in this thread, not ones just deleted now), by all means PM me.
EDIT: Did some cleaning up. If your post was removed and you'd like to know why (any posts of yours in this thread, not ones just deleted now), by all means PM me.
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Incoming long post that no one is going to read~
I've been keeping up with this thread and my opinion is you're all right and wrong and I will explain why (because how is that possible?) But what I would like to say right now is thank you to the people who have been able to express their thoughts and concerns in an appropriate manner, helping the discussion in a positive note.
-*-For starters Kordra, talking on a personal level just to you. The first time I met you was on TeamSpeak. We were in a room with multiple people, all random - no "cliques" were in there at the time. I believe around that time you were also recently banned on one of our servers. Following this first encounter, I later met you again on BB; not sure if you remember any of this but these were the biggest encounters I had with you. My intial impression - whether right or wrong - was that you were a little aggressive. It's been a long time that I cannot give examples, I just remember what I thought of you and to me, your behaviour was aggressive. I bring this up because I wonder if I am the only who you've spoken to in Blocktopia who has felt the same?
Think about real life and how important first impressions are. Something that is true anywhere you go is people judge you in the first couple seconds of meeting you - by how you look, dress, sound, speak, gestures, movements. Coming off as you did to a random stranger doesn't act as an invitation for friendship. What I feel now is that I might've been wrong. Maybe you've changed since then but after reading your posts, I see maturity from admitting when you are wrong, determination and care for this community from what you say and bravery for even posting a thread like this in the first place.
I think we all pretty much had the same reaction when we saw this thread: "oh this thread is going to close soon".
So I admit, I was probably too quick to judge you and give you a chance because that is not how I see you now. Thank you for bringing up these issues, regardless of how this thread turns out.
Yes, we'll always have a "little bit of something new" each time and the reason for that is our servers - at least we like to think - are pretty unique. It's not everyday you can go around and find a server as developed as Rituals of Fire. I remember how basic and average it used to be when it first came out, just a Classic Lava Survival with Premium features. It has come so far since then, with so many additions and trials and new people but you won't get that if we're constantly changing our servers. Perfection such as RoF takes time and that's where our uniqueness comes from.
Don't think I'm picking on you, that's not my intention at all. I actually agree with you that it is like that. It's not always easy to pump out brand new spankin' stuff that you've never seen before but our goal is to always be changing something so it's not the same repetition you see everyday because that'd be boring.
The only thing I do disagree with from your post is the following:
Which obviously isn't true since the only 2 Op+ people to comment before you was emo, who never denied an issue but acknowledged it and Jt, who was referencing back to what I just said about the content. This ramble has gone on for 5 pages with little censoring (the discussion is being allowed) so I hope it doesn't seem that way anymore that anyone with a rank "doesn't care".
Notice the difference between these descriptions. I have an entirely different view on them because of the way I play them. For example, (RoF examples are best examples apparently) every home I build in RoF eventually becomes a spawn house so every round I am housing with people who's username I've never seen before. On SMP Zippywins and I created a village that invited so many random people and that's when I met the amazing builder, Samlen. I'm not telling you to go create a house for the entire community to live on RoF, no. I am saying on each server there is always someone else looking for interaction, just like mentioned in this thread.
And yeah, lots of times you see "who's village can I join?" and no one answers but the point is a.) you now understand how these players feel but b.) don't wait for the people to come to you. Start your own village, let people know they're free to join and you'll get people fast. While you can't fully control your experience on the servers, you can help shape it. The same applies to TS.
Also if you believe a rank is meaningless, I really suggest not striving for it then.
Save yourself the time/effort.
-*-So why do I say we're all right and wrong? Because any means of social interaction - real life or not - requires at least 2 people. Vatumok is right in saying, we own these MC servers and want to bring people but we will never achieve this if we don't take time (as players and staff) to welcome those sole players. More importance placed on the staff here because it comes with the responsibility, really. What's the point of trying to get people to play on your server if you don't even welcome them?
But then Defiant, who had the opposite opinion, is right in saying you can't just expect people who are already interacting to stop what they're doing to invite you. Be honest and ask yourself (especially back in the time of Classic days) you're playing Zombie/Lava/TNT and having a ball with your friends, are you really going to stop that to initiate a conversation to talk to someone you don't know?
This is why we need both. I'm not suddenly asking all players of Blocktopia to find someone lonely and befriend them, no. I'm saying there shouldn't be as big of an issue as people are making it about a player asking to join your house in RoF, even if you are with your friends. Just an example because then what happens is these people judge you to be that aggressive person I once judge Kodra to be. I noticed a lot of you guys seem passionate about this topic but saying one thing and doing it are two different stories.
All this being said it's in my "professional" opinion that this thread does not get locked because key points are being mentioned and should be discussed as a community. However this does mean that people become considerate of what they are posting. The "arguing" taking place should be allowed as it causes no harm for a little debate as long as members stay respectful to each other. This is basic social skills that you learn in grade school.
That's all I have to say on this, although the only thing I really touched upon was social interaction. But this post was a little too long in the first place so... As long as Trap doesn't comment on it, we'll all be fine.
TL;DR
I've been keeping up with this thread and my opinion is you're all right and wrong and I will explain why (because how is that possible?) But what I would like to say right now is thank you to the people who have been able to express their thoughts and concerns in an appropriate manner, helping the discussion in a positive note.
-*-
Think about real life and how important first impressions are. Something that is true anywhere you go is people judge you in the first couple seconds of meeting you - by how you look, dress, sound, speak, gestures, movements. Coming off as you did to a random stranger doesn't act as an invitation for friendship. What I feel now is that I might've been wrong. Maybe you've changed since then but after reading your posts, I see maturity from admitting when you are wrong, determination and care for this community from what you say and bravery for even posting a thread like this in the first place.
I think we all pretty much had the same reaction when we saw this thread: "oh this thread is going to close soon".
So I admit, I was probably too quick to judge you and give you a chance because that is not how I see you now. Thank you for bringing up these issues, regardless of how this thread turns out.
-*-
Moving on, emo sums up a point nicely.We 100% know that at the moment, we're lacking in content. If you haven't seen this thread already, please do so as it provides our reasoning on that. In Malcovent's post, he mentions having more event nights and while only temporarily, they do exactly what emo says. You awkwardly talk to people you don't really talk to... and you play with them. I love these nights because while they may not last, it's like the one time there's 50 people in 1 room and you play with all of them. But what's important is you actually attend one. It's not fully fair to comment negatively on these sort of events if you've never tried. So let's ask for one soon and come join us.emosquirrel said:
-*-
Mad11gab8 said:
Yes, we'll always have a "little bit of something new" each time and the reason for that is our servers - at least we like to think - are pretty unique. It's not everyday you can go around and find a server as developed as Rituals of Fire. I remember how basic and average it used to be when it first came out, just a Classic Lava Survival with Premium features. It has come so far since then, with so many additions and trials and new people but you won't get that if we're constantly changing our servers. Perfection such as RoF takes time and that's where our uniqueness comes from.
Don't think I'm picking on you, that's not my intention at all. I actually agree with you that it is like that. It's not always easy to pump out brand new spankin' stuff that you've never seen before but our goal is to always be changing something so it's not the same repetition you see everyday because that'd be boring.
The only thing I do disagree with from your post is the following:
Which obviously isn't true since the only 2 Op+ people to comment before you was emo, who never denied an issue but acknowledged it and Jt, who was referencing back to what I just said about the content. This ramble has gone on for 5 pages with little censoring (the discussion is being allowed) so I hope it doesn't seem that way anymore that anyone with a rank "doesn't care".
-*-
I think Jivvi made a really cool point that sort of combines both issues at hand,
Jivvi said:
It's an interesting idea which can be used to encourage new and old players to work together but still have no penalty on those who'd still like to be alone, which is something to remember. As admitted earlier, we do sometimes have issues with coming up with new content but even little suggestions and ideas like this can certainly help. We may be having a brain fart for ideas but you could help us out of by suggesting any new ideas you think we need to implement. Not all are accepted but that doesn't mean none are. tl;dr new content can come from the people as well, not just the staff.
-*-
Nottykitten said:AoD -> Survive with or kill your friends/clique!
RoF -> Build a house and AFK with your friends/clique!
BB -> Build with your friends/clique! I mean who is going to build with some random person? Not me.
SMP -> Make a clan with your friends/clique!
TNT -> Kill everyone! Except this server isn't here
Kordra said:
Notice the difference between these descriptions. I have an entirely different view on them because of the way I play them. For example, (RoF examples are best examples apparently) every home I build in RoF eventually becomes a spawn house so every round I am housing with people who's username I've never seen before. On SMP Zippywins and I created a village that invited so many random people and that's when I met the amazing builder, Samlen. I'm not telling you to go create a house for the entire community to live on RoF, no. I am saying on each server there is always someone else looking for interaction, just like mentioned in this thread.
And yeah, lots of times you see "who's village can I join?" and no one answers but the point is a.) you now understand how these players feel but b.) don't wait for the people to come to you. Start your own village, let people know they're free to join and you'll get people fast. While you can't fully control your experience on the servers, you can help shape it. The same applies to TS.
Also if you believe a rank is meaningless, I really suggest not striving for it then.
Save yourself the time/effort.-*-
lovediace said:
I appreciate your passion here but I feel some parts of your quote aren't entirely fair to say. Even though we might not understand where Kordra is coming from doesn't mean he is wrong; it actually could mean that he's not the only to be experiencing this feeling. Some people in this thread have actually agreed with him but I do understand where your frustration comes from. I know people like myself and superstein, for example, promote ourselves to be pretty welcoming people but yet some people might still find "head staff" cold and unapproachable but how could that be? It's might be the overall image the head staff give off (not insulting head staff, giving an example). So it's definitely our responsibility as staff to rethink how we address players/issues but also how our team does as well.
-*-
But then Defiant, who had the opposite opinion, is right in saying you can't just expect people who are already interacting to stop what they're doing to invite you. Be honest and ask yourself (especially back in the time of Classic days) you're playing Zombie/Lava/TNT and having a ball with your friends, are you really going to stop that to initiate a conversation to talk to someone you don't know?
This is why we need both. I'm not suddenly asking all players of Blocktopia to find someone lonely and befriend them, no. I'm saying there shouldn't be as big of an issue as people are making it about a player asking to join your house in RoF, even if you are with your friends. Just an example because then what happens is these people judge you to be that aggressive person I once judge Kodra to be. I noticed a lot of you guys seem passionate about this topic but saying one thing and doing it are two different stories.
All this being said it's in my "professional" opinion that this thread does not get locked because key points are being mentioned and should be discussed as a community. However this does mean that people become considerate of what they are posting. The "arguing" taking place should be allowed as it causes no harm for a little debate as long as members stay respectful to each other. This is basic social skills that you learn in grade school.
That's all I have to say on this, although the only thing I really touched upon was social interaction.
But this post was a little too long in the first place so... As long as Trap doesn't comment on it, we'll all be fine.TL;DR
Also Sploorky & superstein's posts too good to rephrase.Hunter27a1 said:
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A couple months or so ago there was a story about this guy who would just dress up nice and sit in public hoping that a girl would notice him and talk to him. He didn't do anything except just sit there and maybe look at them a bit. He did this many times, but of course to no avail. After a while, he became angry. He saw these other men with their girlfriends and wondered why none of the women were talking to him? He was dressed up more nicely than them! But these men so easily had girlfriends! Sadly, this story ended with him killing women and men out of anger.
Why did the women never talk to him? Well of course, because he never actually tried to talk to them himself. Conversation is a two-way process, and if you are the seeker of conversation then you must put the effort in first.
This story, to be honest, is reminded to me by this whole "shy person" shebang. [DRAMATACIZED] "Why aren't people talking to me? I'm here in public! How dare these people talk to their friends they already know and love when I'm here all alone! They shouldn't expect me to go to talk to them, they should come and talk to me! I'm the new player! I hate cliques!"
So no, I'm not saying "screw shy people". I'm saying that learning to initiate conversation is part of learning to socialize and become, well, grown up. I'm sure it'd all be easier if we could all be shy people, sitting in corners and just make others come to us. But the world can't always work that way. You can't expect other people to put their current friends on pause to talk to you if you're not showing that you're willing to put just as much effort into them.
Talking to people can be hard, yeah. But if making bonds that last for life were super easy, would they really be so worth it?
P.S. stop with the passive-aggressive snarks
Why did the women never talk to him? Well of course, because he never actually tried to talk to them himself. Conversation is a two-way process, and if you are the seeker of conversation then you must put the effort in first.
This story, to be honest, is reminded to me by this whole "shy person" shebang. [DRAMATACIZED] "Why aren't people talking to me? I'm here in public! How dare these people talk to their friends they already know and love when I'm here all alone! They shouldn't expect me to go to talk to them, they should come and talk to me! I'm the new player! I hate cliques!"
So no, I'm not saying "screw shy people". I'm saying that learning to initiate conversation is part of learning to socialize and become, well, grown up. I'm sure it'd all be easier if we could all be shy people, sitting in corners and just make others come to us. But the world can't always work that way. You can't expect other people to put their current friends on pause to talk to you if you're not showing that you're willing to put just as much effort into them.
Talking to people can be hard, yeah. But if making bonds that last for life were super easy, would they really be so worth it?
P.S. stop with the passive-aggressive snarks
Not even contributing to the topic but...
So that took me by complete surprise. Was expecting a different ending... uh, thank you though for the story.
