Suggestion: Make people unable to /ignore staff.

Lee_scar

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What this thread boils down to is control of information and the allowance to treat staff like something special beyond what a staff truly is.

A player who has been entrusted and delegated a higher responsibility to progress the longevity and fun atmosphere of a server while maintaining rules and the status quo while protecting the rights of fellow players. For the record, devs are not staff they are the hearts that provide lifeblood to the body that is the community. Anyways.


The main problem I see argued is 'what if they won't listen' well first you can kick the player, tempban and talk to them in lobby and fix whatever. But then there is
IRC


 

Defiant_Blob

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Still not understanding why people think it's a bad idea because staff might abuse their powers???

Say that one does abuse their powers and harasses a player. They should not be ignored, they should be stripped of their position or otherwise punished.

If our standard for staff is really so low that we'd allow staff members on board that harass players and instead detract from the enjoyability of the server, then I'm just kinda shocked. :/

Ignoring staff just prolongs a problem that needs to be fixed :?
 
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Willchill

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The fact that people are even SUGGESTING any of my fellow staff members would harass someone honestly makes me a little sick to the stomach.
There have been a few instances in the past where staff members (who I won't list here) have harassed other players. Who's to say that won't even happen again?

I think people should be allowed to /ignore staff for reasons tamrawr has already stated.
 

Defiant_Blob

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There have been a few instances in the past where staff members (who I won't list here) have harassed other players. Who's to say that won't even happen again?

I think people should be allowed to /ignore staff for reasons tamrawr has already stated.
If staff members are harassing others, it shouldn't be something taken lightly and just /ignore'd. It should be brought to higher staff immediately so that they can deal with the staff member as soon as possible.
 
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Willchill

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If staff members are harassing others, it shouldn't be something taken lightly and just /ignore'd. It should be brought to higher staff immediately so that they can deal with the staff member as soon as possible.
There have been a few instances in the past where staff members (who I won't list here) have harassed other players. Who's to say that won't even happen again?

I think people should be allowed to /ignore staff for reasons tamrawr has already stated.
I wasn't saying that staff harassment was a reason players should be allowed to /ignore staff, I was only arguing the point that staff have harassed players and there is the possibility that it will happen again. I agree with what you said about staff harassment being taken up to higher staff.
I think it's probably best to keep it this way because although staff is generally very mature and respectful, it's possible for players to have maybe personal issues with certain staff members, maybe they just don't get along with some.
Regardless of a players rank on the server, they're still human beings, and sometimes conflict can arise between two.
 

Defiant_Blob

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I wasn't saying that staff harassment was a reason players should be allowed to /ignore staff, I was only arguing the point that staff have harassed players and there is the possibility that it will happen again. I agree with what you said about staff harassment being taken up to higher staff.
Either reason, ignoring staff members just makes their job harder when they actually need to do their job.
At the very least, if ignoring of staff members is kept allowed, then there needs to be an override function to allow staff members to bypass this when it's needed to speak to a player.

A simple command which would temporarily disable the ignore function of a player until the situation is dealt with would suffice.
 

Toiletprincess

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I think getting rid of /ignore for staff is a good idea mainly because its tedious and makes our job harder having to go through other ways of contacting a player.

If someone has personal issues with a staff member, using the command won't get rid of the personal issue. It's not helping to get rid of the issue. Either you get rid of the issue by speaking about the issue or you just don't pay attention to them until you really have to. I don't think a personal issue with a staff member should be resorted to an ignore, especially if the staff need to speak to you.

Either reason, ignoring staff members just makes their job harder when they actually need to do their job.
At the very least, if ignoring of staff members is kept allowed, then there needs to be an override function to allow staff members to bypass this when it's needed to speak to a player.

A simple command which would temporarily disable the ignore function of a player until the situation is dealt with would suffice.
That may be an alternate solution, but what would the command be?
 

asaechao

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Either reason, ignoring staff members just makes their job harder when they actually need to do their job.
At the very least, if ignoring of staff members is kept allowed, then there needs to be an override function to allow staff members to bypass this when it's needed to speak to a player.

A simple command which would temporarily disable the ignore function of a player until the situation is dealt with would suffice.
Iirc, you can do /msg (name) and the player will still see the message.
 
D

DarkHender

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Iirc, you can do /msg (name) and the player will still see the message.
yep

keep ignore for players please, staff can override it or have another staff member msg them in main chat if needed.
 

Awwwyea

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I'm not sure why there's even an argument against this. I've staffed long enough to tell anyone that the bare minimum requirement on a server for staff to moderate is being able to talk to the person you're punishing/teaching/whatever-ing. You can take away every other command an Operator has and sure, it'll be a lot harder, but take away their ability to speak and they basically become paperweight.

And to address the staff abuse issue,

If said harassment is going on and they can override it already, making staff exempt from /ignore doesn't make it any more of a problem than it supposedly is already. And to be blunt to the people thinking this is a problem, keep in mind that they globally permanently banned a Head Admin once. If a staff member is screwing with you that much, they're not going to fuck around. If you've got evidence, you're set.

If you by chance have some personal issues with a staff member as someone mentioned, that may be a problem. However, also from my own personal experience, ignoring someone doesn't just make those problems go away. That person is still on the same server, probably feeling the same awkward/anxious/angry/sad emotions you are just because of your presence. I get that feeling and having no solution yields no conclusion.

superstein When you said it'd only take a few seconds to change, you're only making staff exempt from /ignore and not completely removing it, right?

TL;DR: Make some whitelist for staff to exempt them from /ignore because there's no problem you can't solve yourself as a player through communication that could arise from it. Report staff if they're abusing, the day goes on, everyone's happy.
 
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☃Dr. Bob

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I wasn't even aware we had /ignore
However If this were implemented what would protect the regular players from staff harassment? Staff could easily abuse this in some form and the regular users on the server would have no protection against this.
I have needed to use /ignore in the past to stall harassment from staff. It is a sad truth, but sometimes a particular person may abuse their power. Now I do feel that all the staff here atm are very mature, it is still important to have at least a little power as to what a person can do to stop harassment. Maybe a certain rank can use /ignore, not sure. Or maybe we just shouldn't be able to /ignore vetop+. I dunno, it is quite extreme to say that we shouldn't have /ignore at all, as what if we are being harassed? I can tell you, its not fun or fair, and we at least need to have some type of way to block out harassment. Maybe a /report [name] [why] [what operator type should be alerted to the matter] so we can report anyone abusing their power if we can't /ignore them?
 

Lee_scar

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If someone has personal issues with a staff member, using the command won't get rid of the personal issue. It's not helping to get rid of the issue. Either you get rid of the issue by speaking about the issue or you just don't pay attention to them until you really have to. I don't think a personal issue with a staff member should be resorted to an ignore, especially if the staff need to speak to you.
then there needs to be an override function to allow staff members to bypass this when it's needed to speak to a player.
If staff members are harassing others, it shouldn't be something taken lightly and just /ignore'd.
The override solution seems to be the best equal-rights solution. Either for us all or for no one.
So now I am about to go and say what a lot of people have been seemingly afraid to say. Maybe no one has wanted to say? I'm not saying this to start a fight with anyone, just to get a point across.

Its as though people are afraid of text, you see a big wall but you don't and won't comprehend and read. Like I said in an earlier reply I was really going to ignore this thread as it really went nowhere from its initial posting, now as it seems its being pushed into motion is the time to act.

There are people on the staff, past?, present?, future? Well that's none of you concern now is it? Just know the instances are there. These staff have portrayed speech mannerisms and actions, tendencies that are portrayed that I find unsatisfactory, unappealing, vulgar, negative, annoying, unnecessary any number of those and more and I downright do not want to have to have those people bleeding into the chat to which I have to look at in order to maintain some semblance of enjoyability and bear with if I want to have the chat system active to maintain sociality on this server. I don't think anyone should be limited the ability to ignore the staff as they see fit should they have similar feelings, I will go on as to why below.

On another small point the only time I afked, were the moments I was truely afk bathrooming or fooding or something, otherwise I was on the game enjoying the game and putting up with these negatively appealing things. Thus I actively payed attention to chat, because I enjoyed the game.

It had gotten to the point where 'manning up and dealing with it' isn't something I could do. It made the server unpleasant, unenjoyable and lead me to not wanting to play it. RoF isn't a server where one can simply decide to do what they wish at another time, its a round based progression system- you leave and come back at the end of a round you risk getting nothing and getting zero progression or true enjoyablity out of the server. I didn't ignore people ever, staff ranking or not. Why you ask? Not because they were simply staff I can tell you that much. Rather it had more to do with this being a personal distaste. They were not a 'problem' there was nothing to 'fix' I didn't lack any respect for these people or not like the individuals themselves. There was no 'issue' between me and them. I actually reached out to some of these people and attempted to make friends. I'm sorry, I loved the server as it was the backbone of what I played inbetween the smp servers. I still do love it and all our servers as they are what makes us a community, but that is neither here nor there.

Individuals used teamspeak /msg /tell and more to go about their private lives and funs, but now its all spilling about everywhere. The people who do not want to deal with this, those players who we all know are not going to muck up the rules and fun for everyone should have the right to use this command. I don't care about your role-plays, they don't bother me in the slightest. Go build that castle to ward off the world flooding with lava from the evil dragon! Woo! It actually makes the server more entertaining sometimes. I don't care about your lovely dovey bullsheit either. Get married on the server, talk about having kids or whatever! However this falls under role-play all the same, albeit I'd rather you do it like some staff in the past who would kindly segregate that stuff, but whatever I'll deal. Not being able to block a staff doing all this for those that don't want to bear it, no deal. Its started to get down to the server being 'Role-plays Of Friends' and 'Relationships Of Foreigners' Those are no insults. I've seen many jokingly and seriously refer to the server as 'relationships of fire' This is really how the servers social structure is evolving and there is nothing wrong with this.

Its not about those things, its again, back to the very manner to which one may speak with the words themselves in text. I truly feel for those who are grammar aficionados, OCD on a painful level, have trigger phrases or some sort of personal disorder they would rather not make public which can lead them to be thrown into a rage or depression or any number of emotions. I hope no one has the audacity to say these people do not get to enjoy this server to its fullest and be limited the ability to actively avoid the triggers just because it was a staff who triggered it. In the past I happened to view a staff say a trigger word that caused a player distress for 'the funnies' which everyone had the shits and giggles and it was swept away. The player sorta shrugged it off because it was a 'im just breaking your chops' kinda moment but still.

I didn't think anything of it at the time, but damn that was cold. These phrases said directly or indirectly or mannerisms while even staff saying these things may not be harassing, another user having to directly see their words spoken at all are a harassment themselves. So your saying the afflicted is supposed to force someone who has a way of speaking to kindly stop? Why? Everyone has every right to speak well type any damn way they please, within reason. Just because someone in particular does not like it or find it bearable doesn't mean we can or should dictate how they carry themselves, but it sure as hell doesn't mean one should be forced to put up with it just because the one causing the anxiety are staff and with the change will be powerless to ignore them.


The simple fact that a player has the plugin knowledge to know about the /ignore command and execute it means they are familiar enough with minecraft to know some of the following if not more:
A: know what a command is
B: know about plugins
C: understands that servers will have rules
D: understand what ranks and titles are
E: know what greifing means

In turn a player knowing these things has no excuse to break rules because they /ignore a staff and in turn should be treated even harsher for this command abuse to get away with rule breaking. After all if they have the comprehension to /ignore then they should be able to understand /rules when its announced even. Its the my xxxxx was using the account not me situation but worse.

The fact that it has come down to suggesting we limit the rights of the players simply for the ease? Really? the fucking EASE? The staff, all staff, when they signed on for the duty inherently and fully understand what they have agreed to set forth on. That is the arduous task of willingly submitting time and effort. Emphasis on Effort. This is really reaching towards ushering in a new age of totalitarianism for the Blocktopian community. Someone is causing trouble kick their ass out. Hell there is usually two or three staff online at most given times even.

If a police officer is talking to a person they are trying to get under control and the person isn't listening what happens? They get tasered or droped to the ground. I will not idly sit by and support this stranglehold of equality. Staff deserve every right to be adhered to and respected. Players have every right to be respected just the same. Every wall is built brick by brick and block by block with this being the first block to building a wall between what it means to be a 'regular' player and a 'staff' player. 'Rights Of Finite'

Now this right here is going to burn some people, but you know what why can I not voice my opinion? Nothing classy about being un-allowed to voice deep concern. No one is getting any names from me because why should you be allowed the right? We are here and now that was then and there. I've resisted saying all this up until this point however the biased attitude towards 'being a staff member' in this thread and the attitude that they are supposed to be damn 'flawless' is sickening.

tl;dr? Too bad. I don't want your reply if you didn't read it then. no right to just skim and fight me based on lack of comprehension and context. For those that have read, thank you.

Humans are flawed, staff are humans, staff are flawed, we can only do what we can to co-exist without error and continue on respectfully and pleasantly.
 

Defiant_Blob

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The command could be something as simple as /disableignore [Player Name] (time), which would disable it indefinitely until another command is used (/enableignore [Player Name]) or until the end of the time limit.
Some may be concerned that a staff member would override this to harass a player, it should be kept in mind that staff members who unjustly use this command would of course be penalized.

While /msg is a possibility, being able to quickly communicate makes situations proceed much faster. As well, speaking publicly rather than privately helps keep staff under check at the same time for those of you concerned about staff abuse.

As well, I believe that a staff member shouldn't have to bring in another staff member to deal with a situation they could easily handle themselves if they hadn't been ignored and hinders the efficiency of a staff member. As well, other staff members are not always available.

Also, Dr. Bob:
[BCOLOR=rgb(255, 244, 229)]I have needed to use /ignore in the past to stall harassment from staff. It is a sad truth, but sometimes a particular person may abuse their power. Now I do feel that all the staff here atm are very mature, it is still important to have at least a little power as to what a person can do to stop harassment. Maybe a certain rank can use /ignore, not sure. Or maybe we just shouldn't be able to /ignore vetop+. I dunno, it is quite extreme to say that we shouldn't have /ignore at all, as what if we are being harassed? I can tell you, its not fun or fair, and we at least need to have some type of way to block out harassment. Maybe a /report [name] [why] [what operator type should be alerted to the matter] so we can report anyone abusing their power if we can't /ignore them?[/BCOLOR]
If at anytime you are being harassed by a staff member, you should immediately bring it up to a higher up, either via IRC or forums. The staff will deal with the abusing staff member as soon as possible.
 

Dess

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If there are people you need, absolutely need, to ignore then let a staffer know. We all have been taught the command to ignore people again.

But having it removed is good because just letting it continue, while ignored, instead of taking action (whether asking them to stop or us to get them to) is not a good idea.

We still can help in this situation and we can let you ignore people. You will just need to ask us for the command.
 

Ogarci

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Hi, okay, so some Director input here as far as what has been done and what is planned to be done.

Last friday I removed the command entirely. First, based on the plugin that we use that includes the command, I tried making staff un-ignorable as suggested by the original post. This didn't work, as to why, I have no idea.

I defaulted to removing the command entirely. My thinking then was: why does the command need to be in place to begin with? If you really want to ignore something, just dont bother reading their text. Staff can't be ignored, but no one can.

I haven't read this entire thread, but I did read Lee_scar 's post and it made me reconsider, for now. I've added it back in. I think he's on the right track, but that's my personal opinion. If someone ignores staff, then that's their tough shit. The consequences will only be worse if you don't reply to a staff member doing whatever. I also believe that it's not our responsibility to force people to speak about their personal problems with players if it doesn't break any rules and no one is harmed. Our rights end where theirs begin, and they have a right to feel how they wish, up to the point that it interrupts gameplay/rules/etc.

As far as any sort of unenjoyable activity displayed by a staff member: Take it to the relevant Director+ immediately, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Before a final, closing decision is made, we're going to discuss this as a staff team and get everyone's opinion in. Anyone else is free to voice here.

How would anyone feel about changing the /ignore command to a secret command not listed, and given out upon request, as Dessern states above?
 
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Lee_scar

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How would anyone feel about changing the /ignore command to a secret command not listed, and given out upon request, as Dessern states above?
First thank you for reading my lengthy post, I know it must have been an ordeal to tread thru the multi-paragraph tirade.

The idea that it would be moved to a secret command that staff could give out to those that feel so strongly to the situation leads them with the ideal that an ignore of the other member is an absolute must sounds wonderful.

It shows a conscious effort to need to ignore someone where 'talk it out' intervention may or may not work and may or may not be needed and solve the situation. Further it shows acknowledgement that being able to ignore someone is a privilege and a right allotted and not to be abused in a paltry fashion.

As well this secret command could trickle into other servers all-be-it another secret, or same? command where this type of concern or issue can be squashed community wide. Unless that's not particularly needed and rof seems to be the exception? That's up for debate.
 
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