Rule Suggestion.

[Sploorky]

Hello everybody! Recently, I've been playing zombie survival more, and I've really been enjoying it. Now that I've gotten more into the game, I just wanted to suggest a possible rule(taken directly from lava survival).

Do not be a backseat staff member. We have moderators for a reason.

Now, I'm all for having players help each other out. In fact, a good server strives on nice player interactions. But, to give my reasoning as to why I think adding this rule would be a good choice, I'm going to give an example of a real life situation.

Imagine you are at work, and you mess something up. Maybe you lost important files, maybe you accidently spilled coffee on the company computer, maybe you acted rude to somebody else. No matter the situation, you did something wrong. Would you talk to your boss or superior about this, or would you get told off by your co-workers who are on the exact same standing as you?

If I broke a rule, either intentionally or accidently, I would want to talk to a staff member about it, and I would like a staff member to be the person who corrects me on it. I think having other players tell you off for a rule causes some problems. You're not going to feel the same around that player, it will become you and "that guy who told me off". It becomes awkward. Players may feel that they are superior or inferior to others, due to the fact that they warned somebody for a rule, or was warned by their fellow players. These feelings are ones I personally would want to avoid, and hope others don't have to feel that way.

Now, I'm not saying anybody who says "You're unreachable" or "You can't piller" causes the situations I discussed above, but in more extreme situations, I feel this rule would be helpful.

Feel free to tell me how much you love or hate this idea. Discussions bring about the best possible solution!

 

[DarthLego5679]

Eh. I hate that rule on lava, since I see people genuinely trying to help out and getting told off for it.(I'm talking answering questions when staff are online). I don't especially like it specifically here either. Doesn't that fall under common sense already? ._.

 

[Sploorky]

People shouldn't be warned for backseat opping if they are answering questions and generally helping. It's in the cases of: "-insertspam-" "Don't spam because it's against the rules". If a staff member is there to moderate the server, they can efficiently handle the situation. I believe the rule is more prevalent in lava due to ranks and the prior problems with "rankism", but I feel it's worth adding here as well. As for it falling under common sense...kind of. Common sense can be interpreted differently very easily, and if this was against the rules, I don't think many players would realize they shouldn't do it unless there was a clear rule saying you can not.

 

[Dess]

While this is a good idea of a rule for zombie but its honestly not needed that much. What I do and what I belive other operators do is we will tell that player in a PM to be careful not to backseat op and as this rule would generally only apply to those people who are trying to get [Trusted] it normally isnt that much of a problem although it does still arise.

 

[Mikey]

In all honesty, I'm very half in half with this rule. Lets start off from the beginning, there has been very honorable players who are not Trusted, but still help out quiet immensely. Now say they 'help moderate' another player, then the player dislikes this player for telling him the ways of the rules, I feel the same would go for Operator+ as "That's the Operator who 'yelled' at me!." Well to begin, not liking someone for something that unreasonable is ridiculous in my reason and that player deserves to be consulted of the rules by anyone. If they have the nerve to break any rule, then get mad at the person who tried to help them avoid trouble is crazy talk.

I also feel like it's not like your co-worker is yelling yet only trying to help you. Some players believe it or not, are very respected from their maturity and helpfulness to the server, not hated. The old players who like being a player, are most definitely not hated, and if they are hated, it's from that young-immature child who doesn't like anyone/anything that doesn't believe what he does.

Now, the only reason I believe this would be a good idea is that players can have that tendency to get in the way, specifically in arguments that includes someones attitude. When a player butts in an argument giving his/her opinion on it usually makes the whole situation more worse, which is definitely not a positive.

Overall, this is a very controversial subject but I think we've been fine without this rule and will continue to be, Vatumok just shortened all the /rules just a few weeks ago to decrease the large chunk, so players can read them all in time without the screen text moving to fast. This is certainly just my thoughts and opinions on this subject.

Furthermore, glad to see you're playing on the zombie survival and to see you're getting involved.

 

[Sploorky]

Understandable, I can agree as to why you wouldn't want to add a rule that ultimately wouldn't be used that much. Any other opinions are welcome, but thank you all for your post so far.

 

[ZombiePineapple]

My say on this. Now forgive me if you are offended by this. Its too confusing and its an awful rule, for when I first saw it on lava. In real life, I'm thinking "wtf" but I see it has changed now. But for zombie survival? Its different from lava survival.

Sure, it can seem useful. But it works for lava, doesn't mean it may work for zombie survival. Two different gameplays, two different styles. Sure, same developers, but in reality, just makes no sense to change it so it can feel comfortable. And not much of the staff have a problem with it. I have grown a custom to having no backseat operator. I don't do it as much when I do go to zombie. But, you gotta think. What if there is no trusted nor any other staff on and they can't be pinged? How does that work? Another thing, in response to Sploorky's job analysis, working in a real life job would have teamwork and that is all that every player that wants to help do. Its teamwork, it helps you no matter what. That is why you are staff because you used teamwork.

Another thing then I am done with this. But in the job thing, you can go to higher staff but people are meant to help. It is in their instinct, its natural to help others. Adding this rule will just restrict it and cause people to depend on themselves. Which can be debated, but that isn't the point. The point is adding this rule will just cause confusion as it has on lava, which there is nothing wrong with it, just seems kinda stupid and pointless. The point of zombie survival is to keep away from zombies or hunt humans depending on which one you are. And I see people who have no intention or have intentions of becoming staff help others. Adding this rule will make it difficult for those to become staff because they can have a fear of being yelled at by staff. And the same point, the staff don't have difficulty with other people helping so this rule will be useless.

Now, I must get a soda or something to eat after typing this.

 

[Trap_Wolf]

I'm very half in half with this rule.

I also feel like Sploorky is bringing this up because I've been noticing a few incidences where the player is being detrimental to the conversation or problem by un unintentionally egging the rule breaker to continue the problem.

SUPER OVER USED QUOTE: "feeding the trolls"

I don't wholey agree that this needs to be an officially marked down /rules but it's something for Staff to note in the back of their minds. There is a complete difference between someone wanting to be a positive impact and actually being one.

Sploorky is just trying to make sure it's more wide known here. There's nothing wrong with this idea. :b

 

[Mikey]

I also feel like Sploorky is bringing this up because I've been noticing a few incidences where the player is being detrimental to the conversation or problem by un unintentionally egging the rule breaker to continue the problem.

SUPER OVER USED QUOTE: "feeding the trolls"

I don't wholey agree that this needs to be an officially marked down /rules but it's something for Staff to note in the back of their minds. There is a complete difference between someone wanting to be a positive impact and actually being one.

Sploorky is just trying to make sure it's more wide known here. There's nothing wrong with this idea. :b

Cant recall when I said anything is wrong with this idea

 

[Trap_Wolf]

Cant recall when I said anything is wrong with this idea

No I was quoting you in agreement hun. :c

 

[Sploorky]

Just to clarify, I think there is a fine line between helping out and causing problems by backseat opping.

My personal views on it:

-Sees somebody break the rules- "Hey, what you just did there was against the rules. Make sure not to do it again!"
This isn't harmful, it's good intention. The person telling the player off does have good intentions, words it correctly, and tries to actually speak to the player.

-Sees somebody break the rules- "Don't do that again, it's against the rules."
This just seems...generic, robotic of sorts. It has the potential of causing awkwardness.

-Sees somebody break the rules- "Omg don't do that or I'll tell an operator"
This is, in my opinion, bad. It's not in the intention to help the player, it causes stress, it makes the player that broke the rules scared that they will get in trouble. This is the main reason why I suggested the rule.

As for a working place to be a team environment, yes, that's true. For minor screw-ups, you could talk to your co-workers. But for big errors(and pretty much breaking a rule is a 'big' error), I think you should talk to your boss about it, same as if you should talk to an operator if you break the rules.

Rules don't have to be enforced with an iron fist. They don't have to be cases of "every single person who does this gets a warning". They could just be a reminder to players that if you want to help, do it with the best intentions of the player you're helping.

In any case, I fully understand why you wouldn't want to add this rule when it could easily fall into the common sense rule or wouldn't be broken much.

Also, hope I don't sound like a prick, not that great with wording stuff =P.

 

[omgitsathong]

I'm not sure where I stand in this, but I'd like to just add that constructive criticism helps you learn, whether it be your peers or someone else above. There's nothing wrong with it unless the situation is approached in a wrong way that takes things a bit too far. It's also true that it's two completely different servers, and I, personally, don't mind if someone like another player is helping out. I think it rarely gets to backseat moderating (which to me is, "Stop before I warn kick you" or "You just broke a rule, I'm gonna tattle on you " and something around the sorts) and it's also helpful to the staff already on the server. Even though we do have the most staff, not all of them are on at the same time, and sometimes 1 or 2 are on in a full server. Any help would be appreciated in my eyes if I were in that situation.

TL;DR - Constructive criticism is good. The way to approach someone about it is important. Don't take things too far such as threats, etc...

 

[soapless]

The term "backseat op" is a pretty vague one indeed. The only people suspect of "backseat opping" are those who want to be above the person that they are forcing the rules upon. That behavior should fall under the common sense category. Those who inform with the intention of helping have every right to help.

 

[Theodorre]

I believe that the term 'backseat opping' is the sort of person who tells a staff member how to do their job, or keeps telling someone what to do/what not to do after the staff member has already acted on it.


Back seat operating
Player123 has been frozen by Example!
Example: Player123, can you please change your skin, as it's not considered appropriate for the server.
BackSeatOp: PLAYER123, YOU NEED TO CHANGE YOUR SKIN!
Example: Feel free to log back in with a new and appropriate skin.
BackSeatOp: LOG OFF WITH A NEW SKIN!
Player123: Okay
Player123 disconnected!.

Being helpful
Example is AFK
Player123: Example, how do we infect the humans?
HelpfulPlayer: Example is AFK at the moment, so I can help you if you like.
Player123: Okay thanks
HelpfulPlayer: To infect a zombie, you run into them, or touch them.
Player123: Oh, okay, thank you!

That's how I believe back seat operating and being helpful are different. Back seat operating is usually just a player attempting to be helpful, but even after a staff member has already dealt with the issue. Being helpful, on the other hand, is when a staff member is busy/AFK/offline or for what other reason, cannot reply to a question. Of course, even if a staff member is able to answer questions, there is nothing wrong with others answering them, because staff members can miss things too. But when a person directs a certain question at a specific staff member, unless they're AFK/busy, it's usually just best to leave it to the staff member to answer :)

So in response to this thread, I would agree I've seen a moderate amount of back-seat-operating happening, but instead of a new rule, which may reflect negatively because people might become afraid of answering questions, we could have the staff members infrequently remind the players that, while answering questions is perfectly fine, they should leave the issues that are out of their power, such as players on WoM or those with inappropriate skins, because that may just make the situation worse than it needs to be

 

[Sploorky]

Worded perfectly, Theo :).

 

[Mikey]

theodorre whilst a player is in freeze mode, he/she may only hear Operator+ chat.

 

[Theodorre]

Oh... how did I not know this until now?

 

[Duffie]

I was going to disagree with this rule, but then I saw Theo's post.

Then I was going to agree with this rule, but then I saw Mike's latest post.

Now, if the Op is currently available and taking the situation at hand, I wholeheartedly agree with this, similar to Theo's second example;

Being helpful
Example is AFK
Player123: Example, how do we infect the humans?
HelpfulPlayer: Example is AFK at the moment, so I can help you if you like.
Player123: Okay thanks
HelpfulPlayer: To infect a zombie, you run into them, or touch them.
Player123: Oh, okay, thank you!

But, if it were to be, say, similar to Theo's first example;

Back seat operating
Player123 has been frozen by Example!
Example: Player123, can you please change your skin, as it's not considered appropriate for the server.
BackSeatOp: PLAYER123, YOU NEED TO CHANGE YOUR SKIN!
Example: Feel free to log back in with a new and appropriate skin.
BackSeatOp: LOG OFF WITH A NEW SKIN!
Player123: Okay
Player123 disconnected!.

I would find that completely unacceptable. The situation is already being taken from a staff member.

Can't really think of real life moment examples, but I guess it would be like you're already getting help from an employee, and some random guy tells you you're doing things wrong, when you're being told already from someone doing their job.

Back to in-game; If people are actually backseat operating by screaming with caps, it's already unacceptable. If they're acting like HelpfulPlayer, that is, in fact, a different situation.

I'm not sure. You can really take this in many directions.

Say, if the person trying to help others by backseat operating is apply for Operator, maybe they would be okay. If they are just some random people who had no intention of being an Operator, I don't exact see why they would backseat.

I haven't been on the server in a while, so the player-base has most likely changed since then. If there are more people who scream with caps at other people about rules, I'd say this should be added. If this is a rare case, and is just annoying, I don't think the rule should be added, and it should just remain as an unwritten rule.

Just my 2+ cents.