PvP balancing issues.

[Vatumok]

Lately I've been getting somewhat tired of AoD simply because of how imbalanced and one sided the game has became, and I know that I'm not the only one. Blocktopia should focus on gaining newer players and the issues that I'm talking about are usually things that newer players would not like.

- Shop should be removed or reworked.
The idea of having pre-made towers/staircases to compromise with the people that did like towers is fine, however, this system ONLY grants people with the reckoning an advantage because the others usually want to save their brains for ranks. Experienced people have nothing to spend theirs brains on and can just buy those items and thus have an advantage. A way to fix this may be to make a different currency for ranks and items.

- There should be a block limit of 5-10 on humans.
AoD is a PvP server, building should not play a central role in a PvP server (except for maybe a few special maps). This would pretty much make it impossible to make staircases or whatever, and that is good for several reasons:
* stairscases look bad.
* can be impossible to climb.
* again, VERY unattractive for newer players (you can scare them away with it).
* frustrating for hunters.
With only one counterargument: * it's fun for the longer player.
Blocks should be used to climb up building or whatever, not to build giant structures.

- Kits should be more balanced
Some kits are clearly better than others, and some even have invisibility in them. These should be more balanced OR it could be made so that you can choose a kit. With this I also means the balance between human items and zombie kits (there are maps where zombies can't do anything because of their useless kit)

- Potion effects
I'm not exactly sure how bad it still is with strength 1 and 2, but that was seriously dumb. It turned the server into a zombie farmfest. It was not surviving anymore but who could get the most points in 1 round. The same goes for invisibility, both should be removed for the game OR their duration should be made extremely short. For example you COULD have a berserk potion, which gives Str1 effect and Spd1 effect for 10 seconds.

I may have forgotten things, in that I'll edit this thread.

And to everyone who is against it, I know that stomping newbies is fun, but it's really bad for the server to keeps things like staircases and potion effects. Because lets be realistic, the only reason things like staircases are allowed is because some people like to farm zombies easily.

 

[Xfolo]

- Shop should be removed or reworked. I agree.

- There should be a block limit of 5-10 on humans. No. I like staircases, even as a hunter. New players gotta learn.

- Kits should be more balanced Yes. Just yes.

- Potion effects I'm not sure. But if it is as bad as they say, yes

 

[Jivvi]

Most strength 2 potions have been disposed of, and replaced with something more balanced. And to be honest, I think it was fine even with the OP strength II. One round in particular on Deadhouse Gates, there were 2 or 3 StrII Hunters in the brewing area, Kigali anyone who dared descend. The team of Hunters had a blast putting holes in the roof, blowing the up, and drowning them in lava; this is still one of my favourite rounds.

 

[nitasu987]

I really only agree about the Kit balances; I like what they've done with everything else. (Although I guess the strength pots should get fixed)

 

[Lord_Dust_Bunny]

- Shop should be removed or reworked. I agree with this. Currently, you have people far along who can just buy 2-3 huge towers to get a quick survival, since they don't need brains.

- There should be a block limit of 5-10 on humans. I think there should be a limit on towers, but a block limit total seems a bit unfair. That makes you unable to build most fortifications for yourself and the place you're at.

- Kits should be more balanced I definitely agree with this. On most maps there's one main, good kit for survivors, and 1-2 useful kits for hunters. The fact that almost every map being juggernaut gives you full diamond no matter what other people's kits are is even more unfair.

- Potion effects While strength II should be nerfed/taken out, I think strength I is okay on maps with already weaker kits overall.

 

[Nottykitten]

- Shop should be removed or reworked.
The idea of having pre-made towers/staircases to compromise with the people that did like towers is fine, however, this system ONLY grants people with the reckoning an advantage because the others usually want to save their brains for ranks. Experienced people have nothing to spend theirs brains on and can just buy those items and thus have an advantage. A way to fix this may be to make a different currency for ranks and items.

Good idea but I still think people would spent brains for ranks and not the shop even if prices are lower.

- There should be a block limit of 5-10 on humans.
AoD is a PvP server, building should not play a central role in a PvP server (except for maybe a few special maps). This would pretty much make it impossible to make staircases or whatever, and that is good for several reasons:
* stairscases look bad.
* can be impossible to climb.
* again, VERY unattractive for newer players (you can scare them away with it).
* frustrating for hunters.
With only one counterargument: * it's fun for the longer player.
Blocks should be used to climb up building or whatever, not to build giant structures.

While that is true I frequently use blocks to get up buildings. and those are usually way more than 5-10. If you want to make it impossible to make staircases you can also just make it illegal. Its easy to screenshot and report so that shouldn't be much of a problem other than that people(and me) don't want it to be illegal.

- Kits should be more balanced
Some kits are clearly better than others, and some even have invisibility in them. These should be more balanced OR it could be made so that you can choose a kit. With this I also means the balance between human items and zombie kits (there are maps where zombies can't do anything because of their useless kit)

I agree, kits are imbalanced. But I don't think hunters should have to choose their own kit. I hate spawning and then having to waste time choosing a kit and writing the name of that kit right. Just takes time.

- Potion effects
I'm not exactly sure how bad it still is with strength 1 and 2, but that was seriously dumb. It turned the server into a zombie farmfest. It was not surviving anymore but who could get the most points in 1 round. The same goes for invisibility, both should be removed for the game OR their duration should be made extremely short. For example you COULD have a berserk potion, which gives Str1 effect and Spd1 effect for 10 seconds.

Yes, most pots are OP and should be removed or tweaked as you say.

 

[Guinessis]

Shops: Remove the uber-towers, make players only able to purchase one item per round. In addition, make the config files contain an option for disabling the shop entirely. I think the towers add something to the game, but I agree that making enormous stacks of them can be a bit frustrating.

Towers: Go through the older maps and set the map build limit. Similar to the last point, towers themselves are not a huge problem, they are only an issue when they get out of control.

Block Limit: Perhaps also include this in the configuration file, and make it clearly stated at the beginning of the round. Make certain blocks not apply to this limit (fire, webs). I agree that it would be a nice addition, but I can also see newer players getting frustrated when they suddenly find out they can't build anymore.

Potion Effects/Kits: Mojang deciding that strength potions should be changed from static +damage to an obscenely high scaling percentage has made some of the older kits and items horribly imbalanced. On Y'Ghatan I can now run around killing people in a single swing if I find one of the several str II potions, which was never intended.

As for invisibility effects, I think that once the bugs are removed they'll be ok. Major issues pop up on Reverence (no idea why Survivors are getting the effect) and maps where Invis potions are included in the Hunter kits, allowing Survivors to pick them up when they are dropped. I personally like the idea of 30 second Invis potions, allowing Survivors to sneak past blockades. Once it gets past 30 seconds however it gets silly.

As for imbalanced kits in general, these are usually addressed in the map review sessions but they sometimes slip through the cracks. Selecting a kit by hand is not the solution in my opinion, as this will further confuse new players.

General Solution: I've noticed a lot of following the letter of the law, not the intent of the law recently on AoD, something that has plagued our SMP servers as well. If something gives you a ridiculous advantage and is not intentional, please just leave it alone. Abusing the invis glitches, lack of build limits, changes in block restrictions, etc will choke out the server.

All of these points may more or less be addressed temporarily by revisiting older maps and tweaking the configuration files, which is unfortunately a major pain in the ass. Towers to the sky on 747? Set the map height to 100 or so. Players building towers on Ascended through the shop and choking them with cobwebs? Make ENDERCHESTS unplaceable.

I'd recommend making an additional thread identifying which maps are currently problematic along with the proposed fixes. Most of the tower issues may be fixed via map height limits, or in extreme cases just making players unable to place wood blocks. A lot of the older maps are particularly prone to these problems, since they were made before the new config options were available.

For longer-term fixes, I'd recommend just making staircases illegal along with towers, removing the larger towers from the shop, and making a per-round purchase limit.

 

[Solis22]

- Shop should be removed or reworked. I agree.

- There should be a block limit of 5-10 on humans. No. I like staircases, even as a hunter. New players gotta learn.

- Kits should be more balanced Yes. Just yes.

- Potion effects I'm not sure. But if it is as bad as they say, yes

- There should be a block limit of 5-10 on humans. No. I like staircases, even as a hunter. New players gotta learn.

- They gotta learn? The staircases are impossible to climb up. And more for the new players. I've no problem with the towers of the /shop, but the staircases are annoying. And do you think that with those staircases the server will attract new players? I don't think so...

 

[Vatumok]

Guinessis, you're probably right, many/all of the problems can be fixed by revising older maps. Of course this will be annoying for someone to go over but personally, I deem it necessary. (Zombies ragequiting on Smarq....)

About the tower debate, it doesn't really matter that half of the people like it. Towers are anti-fun and killing the gameplay for half of the server while the other half's their fun would not immediately be killed by removing towers. That is something to keep in mind.

And xfolo, "new players need to learn", why would they?

 

[Arachadonic]

Shops: Remove the uber-towers, make players only able to purchase one item per round. In addition, make the config files contain an option for disabling the shop entirely. I think the towers add something to the game, but I agree that making enormous stacks of them can be a bit frustrating.

Towers: Go through the older maps and set the map build limit. Similar to the last point, towers themselves are not a huge problem, they are only an issue when they get out of control.

Block Limit: Perhaps also include this in the configuration file, and make it clearly stated at the beginning of the round. Make certain blocks not apply to this limit (fire, webs). I agree that it would be a nice addition, but I can also see newer players getting frustrated when they suddenly find out they can't build anymore.

Potion Effects/Kits: Mojang deciding that strength potions should be changed from static +damage to an obscenely high scaling percentage has made some of the older kits and items horribly imbalanced. On Y'Ghatan I can now run around killing people in a single swing if I find one of the several str II potions, which was never intended.

As for invisibility effects, I think that once the bugs are removed they'll be ok. Major issues pop up on Reverence (no idea why Survivors are getting the effect) and maps where Invis potions are included in the Hunter kits, allowing Survivors to pick them up when they are dropped. I personally like the idea of 30 second Invis potions, allowing Survivors to sneak past blockades. Once it gets past 30 seconds however it gets silly.

As for imbalanced kits in general, these are usually addressed in the map review sessions but they sometimes slip through the cracks. Selecting a kit by hand is not the solution in my opinion, as this will further confuse new players.

General Solution: I've noticed a lot of following the letter of the law, not the intent of the law recently on AoD, something that has plagued our SMP servers as well. If something gives you a ridiculous advantage and is not intentional, please just leave it alone. Abusing the invis glitches, lack of build limits, changes in block restrictions, etc will choke out the server.

All of these points may more or less be addressed temporarily by revisiting older maps and tweaking the configuration files, which is unfortunately a major pain in the ass. Towers to the sky on 747? Set the map height to 100 or so. Players building towers on Ascended through the shop and choking them with cobwebs? Make ENDERCHESTS unplaceable.

I'd recommend making an additional thread identifying which maps are currently problematic along with the proposed fixes. Most of the tower issues may be fixed via map height limits, or in extreme cases just making players unable to place wood blocks. A lot of the older maps are particularly prone to these problems, since they were made before the new config options were available.

For longer-term fixes, I'd recommend just making staircases illegal along with towers, removing the larger towers from the shop, and making a per-round purchase limit.

This. 1000 times this. Please.

 

[Chocfudgemud]

The first one makes sense after seeing Mustabear place like 4 huge towers on top of each other (Got killed cause map height)
But seriously I haven't brought a rank in ages I don't see any point behind it so I just buy towers. Guinessis I disagree with removing larger towers. They do work sometimes but it looks like a beacon in the sky... Unless there's blindness on the hunters they could always see it. Then about 3 hunters will try to come up. You can kill then once but then you get ingered and then you could die.

And with the second one as you said breaking blocks is a form of navigation... And Im pretty sure recently towers have been banned. If it makes the map look bad this isn't a beauty contest... It will only be there for like 8 minutes anyway.

I get what you mean by invisablity (Reverence) but maybe they should make it so you have to wear 1 armour piece or something.
Also hunter kits on divided are not very good. If your a new player there is a very distinct disadvantage with hunter kits. Also with that map there is a diamond sword that is hidden somewhere which seems more unfair
I guess If the two kits have the same basic stuff it's even because hunters can respawn and survivors get loot.

The potion thing I don't find fun for the survivors either I drank a str 2 and it wasn't
Very good for testing out my sharp 2 iron sword it killed in 2 shots. And this is serious on Deadhouse gates
It would be good to ulter the brewing room so that you can only make str 1 which is alot more fair.

I agree with most of these besides number 2

 

[Haysagar]

- Shop should be removed or reworked.
The idea of having pre-made towers/staircases to compromise with the people that did like towers is fine, however, this system ONLY grants people with the reckoning an advantage because the others usually want to save their brains for ranks. Experienced people have nothing to spend theirs brains on and can just buy those items and thus have an advantage. A way to fix this may be to make a different currency for ranks and items.

Yes I have been thinking about this my self but I would rather not remove the /shop all together. I do agree we need to rework the prices on most of the item's in the shop and hopefully be adding in some new shop item's.

- There should be a block limit of 5-10 on humans.
AoD is a PvP server, building should not play a central role in a PvP server (except for maybe a few special maps). This would pretty much make it impossible to make staircases or whatever, and that is good for several reasons:
* stairscases look bad.
* can be impossible to climb.
* again, VERY unattractive for newer players (you can scare them away with it).
* frustrating for hunters.
With only one counterargument: * it's fun for the longer player.
Blocks should be used to climb up building or whatever, not to build giant structures.

I disagree with limiting the block's you can place. Yes this might be a potential fix for towers/staircases but I don't want to completely get rid of a strategy the survivors use. We will be trying to balance this out more hopefully. Also blocks are used in other things on maps not just staircases and towers.

- Kits should be more balanced
Some kits are clearly better than others, and some even have invisibility in them. These should be more balanced OR it could be made so that you can choose a kit. With this I also means the balance between human items and zombie kits (there are maps where zombies can't do anything because of their useless.

I know someone stated this above somewhere up there^^^^^, but most people don't like choosing there kit's manually sense it does take some time. I do agree that kit's need to be more balance and if I do see a kit on a map that need's to be nerfed or buffed I do message Baker to fix the problem. So if you have any suggestion's on kit's that need to be edited feel free to message me or any other staff and ill gladly look into it and hopefully we can work out a better suited kit for the map.

- Potion effects
I'm not exactly sure how bad it still is with strength 1 and 2, but that was seriously dumb. It turned the server into a zombie farmfest. It was not surviving anymore but who could get the most points in 1 round. The same goes for invisibility, both should be removed for the game OR their duration should be made extremely short. For example you COULD have a berserk potion, which gives Str1 effect and Spd1 effect for 10 seconds.

Almost all of the STR II potions are being removed so no worries about them anymore. Then most of the map's don't have invisibility potion's. Maybe I haven't come in contact with them myself. I know I did have a kit removed with invisibility for the whole round but that's about it. Then like I said above. Feel free to message or any other staff and we will check it out and see if it need's to be adjusted.

 

[LagWarrior]

Im all in for the kits to be rebalanced. They really need a rework. Also, with the shop, I just want to add more items to possibly buy.

 

[captain_pikmin]

The kits don't seem too bad for me but I do get a bit irritated when I can't do much with just a bow and some arrows (archer), warrior isn't too bad and the scout kit is okay. The other kits on the newer maps do not seem to have a problem with me but can we add a little more food to the kits to help the survivors out a bit.
The staircase towers should be removed as well for the shop towers because I found out the shop towers can be used to get on to walls on maps like Ascendant (the obsidian walls) I will give more information later.

 

[nitasu987]

I'm really all for pretty much everything I've read except for illegal staircases

There's lots of times where you have to build/break up to places as a Hunter to get to Survivors when I play