C9++ - Game End - Mafia Win

Infected_alien8_

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It's the way she put a preemptive disclaimer that fantome could be a unfortunate townie.
No I don't think that's it, that's something I considered about it but it's not what got to me I don't think

It's the way she put a preemptive disclaimer that fantome could be a unfortunate townie.

1) As I said, I wasn't actually suspicious of you before, I was seeing how you'd respond. You chose not to respond, which is a very anti-town behavior.
To be fair any anti-town who thinks they can just not respond and get away with it is probably fairly new to mafia, I don't think this in and of itself makes him scummy personally
 

Infected_alien8_

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Anyways my les-behavioural analysis is this

Last game he had a bit of a rough one-off and his reads weren't as accurate as usual and a few people were making a thing out of it, pointing out he was leading town into mislynches

So this game he decides not to be so lynch-trigger-happy because he was burnt from the last game, explaining why he's suddenly a lot more passive than usual

Because he's concerned about being wrong again and because he's got a boring role he puts less effort into the game and decides he can be lynched

And then in this world where he's town the 'slip' was a townie slip as a result of him being tired and he genuinely didn't feel the need to respond to it - in fact I think he'd be more likely to respond to it as mafia because his ego would be hurt if he's lynched as mafia and he's played enough games to know that he could have been bandwagoned because of that
 

Alisha

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Anyways my les-behavioural analysis is this

Last game he had a bit of a rough one-off and his reads weren't as accurate as usual and a few people were making a thing out of it, pointing out he was leading town into mislynches

So this game he decides not to be so lynch-trigger-happy because he was burnt from the last game, explaining why he's suddenly a lot more passive than usual

Because he's concerned about being wrong again and because he's got a boring role he puts less effort into the game and decides he can be lynched

And then in this world where he's town the 'slip' was a townie slip as a result of him being tired and he genuinely didn't feel the need to respond to it - in fact I think he'd be more likely to respond to it as mafia because his ego would be hurt if he's lynched as mafia and he's played enough games to know that he could have been bandwagoned because of that
So wait do you think fantome is town or scum?
 

Infected_alien8_

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in fact I think he'd be more likely to respond to it as mafia because his ego would be hurt if he's lynched as mafia and he's played enough games to know that he could have been bandwagoned because of that
not because les has some ego thing or anything, that's not what I mean, I mean since it would mean he's failed at the game, in my opinion people are more likely to blame themselves for being lynched as mafia vs being lynched as town because they know the other players were onto something, but as town they can blame the others for misreading them, so being lynched as mafia is more damaging to the ego of someone than being lynched as town
 
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HKCaper

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HK agreed with one of my posts and for a moment I thought he was agreeing with my reads

(he agreed with my 'I think your idea is against the rules fog' post)
I thought a post would be better in place here. What Fog suggested does seem meta in my eyes, so I wouldnt allow it. Ofcourse this is a general statement about this sort of situation, and not this game individually.
 
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ChocoFox

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By the aggressive language you used ("Jumping my comment," "claiming I'm evil"), you attempt to frame me in a negative light. Did I respond quickly and shortly to the comment? Of course, I'm not going to let something like that go unnoticed, nor am I going to pass up an opportunity to get some activity going. Did I claim you were evil? Yeah, I suppose, but as stated, I was putting pressure on you to see how you would defend yourself from such a claim. And you reacted extremely defensively for only having one vote on you.
I don't understand why you are being defensive here Tim? I mean, I can see the basis of your suspicion but right now most of the suspicion lies on Les. I'm not suspecting you as of right now but the rhetoric in this question just seems excessive in my opinion.

There's an itch in the back of my head saying that fantome's just a townie that said the wrong thing at the wrong time, but his trying to pin the blame on theweakguy for something he didn't even do has convinced me that this is a safe lynch. I don't read fantome as a power role so at worst it's loss of a townie.

vote fantome
Okay, so in my post from just now I mentioned that I'm starting to slightly Townread Alisha but I wasn't really paying full attention to the discussion that was ongoing at that point in time.

This right here starts making me very suspicious because:
1. You voted Inffy first (meme joke so I'll ignore this)
2. Then you voted me, claiming that I was quick to jump on Les, even though Timdood was the one who jumped first
3. THEN you voted Les

I enjoy doing that yes

On a slightly more serious note I've been going back and forth between choco and fantome all day and trying to work out the pros and cons and just getting confused
N a n i .

I still want to maintain that you're Town in my head but your flip-flop between me or Les is just... I don't even know. I'll change my read from being Town to a no-read.

Anyways my les-behavioural analysis is this

Last game he had a bit of a rough one-off and his reads weren't as accurate as usual and a few people were making a thing out of it, pointing out he was leading town into mislynches

So this game he decides not to be so lynch-trigger-happy because he was burnt from the last game, explaining why he's suddenly a lot more passive than usual

Because he's concerned about being wrong again and because he's got a boring role he puts less effort into the game and decides he can be lynched

And then in this world where he's town the 'slip' was a townie slip as a result of him being tired and he genuinely didn't feel the need to respond to it - in fact I think he'd be more likely to respond to it as mafia because his ego would be hurt if he's lynched as mafia and he's played enough games to know that he could have been bandwagoned because of that
I understand the logic behind your model in this case but despite this I still feel that Les would fight back *regardless* of whatever happened in previous game. His behaviour so far with averting questions is just, in my personal opinion, very uncharacteristic of him if he were Town, even if his softclaim from before is true.

If he were Town I would only imagine Les giving up at the very last moment when there are many votes against him but right now only two people (Tim and Alisha) have voted him and he was already giving that response before.

Then there's this:
I didn't defend myself because only one person really called me out on a very weak reason too it wasn't worth my time to respond to it I only did so because choco said something about it and choco is notorious about bandwagon (also about being absolutely wrong about his reads)

this is just my regular vernacular I use nothing more nothing less


I said yall were teaming a because of other factors also which I will not say for reasons

I'm sorry but this will not happen with me in the game my memory is too good not to remember correlations in the past also my major has ruined me in terms of reading behaviors


very good about figuring out my role also can you and inffy get what ever yall have for each other over with already yall spamming the forums isn't really fun
"I said yall were teaming a because of other factors also which I will not say for reasons" - what reasons are these?

Les - if you really are Town, can you please help us by defending yourself and giving your reads at least? Who do you suspect as of right now and why?


Last thing:
Okx, Shadow_Hunter3, ernie138

There has been some discussion regarding some potential leads.
1. What is your opinion of what has been discussed?
2. Who do you suspect the most as of right now, and why?
3. Who do you suspect *least* the most right now, and why?
 

Alisha

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I still want to maintain that you're Town in my head but your flip-flop between me or Les is just... I don't even know. I'll change my read from being Town to a no-read.
Fair answer since I am going back and forth, but again I said I have only a slight preference for who gets lynched anyway.

I'm drifting away from wanting to lynch you since Tim has been the one to keep pushing and you haven't had as much to do with the suspicions against fantome, so I'll admit to my initial reasoning being flawed.

Tim I'm leaning neutral-positive on - he's scumhunting and putting out coherent arguments. Yes he's a little aggressive but let's face it fantome isn't helping himself that much right now.
 

TheWeakGuy48_

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Nothing like being away for 12 hours and there's 3 new pages! I'll keep this short as I am on mobile right now.

Anyways I think people are reading way to much into Fantome. Can't really go into depth right now, but I townread him. IMO the choco-fantome issue looks like two townies who are going against each others.

Alisha seems the most suspicious to me here, with her wanting to kill either Choco/Fantome, while also acknowledging the fact that they could be townie.
 

fantome

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I wrote this out on a sheet of paper before fantome posted his accusation of theweakguy - basically what the outcomes of each person's alignment would be if we lynch them

Lynching Choco
- Town - maybe he was on to something about fantome
- Scum - choco may have been trying to pin the blame on fantome by jumping on one statement on its own, fantome clear of being scum
- SK - obviously fantome isn't sk in this scenario nice

Lynching Fantome
- Town - maybe he was onto something about choco
- Scum - choco clear
- SK - gold star for choco
so this always strikes me as odd like Alisha is sure that one of us is mafia and the other is a town but there are other possibilities here also like both of us being town or mafia
 
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Timdood3

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I don't understand why you are being defensive here Tim? I mean, I can see the basis of your suspicion but right now most of the suspicion lies on Les. I'm not suspecting you as of right now but the rhetoric in this question just seems excessive in my opinion.
Oh no, don't misunderstand; I'm not being defensive in the least. If anything, I was saying that that his accusations were accurate, but were presented in a very suspicious way.

Fantome, could you address these points, please?
3) It takes more than one person to bandwagon. More importantly, you weren't worried about me voting you because you thought my reasoning was weak (it was, but as said in my last post, that is not the reason I'm still voting you), but you were worried about someone else voting you with no reason at all?
And I explained how we weren't. I'd really like to hear either your "other factors" or your reasons for not sharing. Because I think you're just trying to hold on to any semblance of a point you may have had.
 
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fantome

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It takes more than one person to bandwagon. More importantly, you weren't worried about me voting you because you thought my reasoning was weak (it was, but as said in my last post, that is not the reason I'm still voting you), but you were worried about someone else voting you with no reason at all?
it's because i know that choco has a history of bandwagoning i even said this in the post you quoted
And I explained how we weren't. I'd really like to hear either your "other factors" or your reasons for not sharing. Because I think you're just trying to hold on to any semblance of a point you may have had.
because i feel like if mafia could prepare a defense if they know the other reasons
 

Timdood3

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it's because i know that choco has a history of bandwagoning i even said this in the post you quoted
Ok, maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. Are you saying that Choco has a tendency to follow up with other people's votes without a reason of his own, are you saying that other people have a tendency to follow Choco's votes without reasons, or am I missing something entirely?
The former really doesn't explain why you would be more afraid of his vote, since you'd know it was baseless.
And the latter doesn't make sense to me because it has nothing to do Choco himself.
because i feel like if mafia could prepare a defense if they know the other reasons
A defense against what?
 

fantome

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Ok, maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. Are you saying that Choco has a tendency to follow up with other people's votes without a reason of his own, are you saying that other people have a tendency to follow Choco's votes without reasons, or am I missing something entirely?
I'm saying that choco has the tendency to misread and follow some else's reads when it correlates to his own also he tends to use abductive reasoning and bandwagoning as for you I haven't seen that yet for you And the latter doesn't make sense to me because it has nothing to do Choco himself.