C9++ - Game End - Mafia Win

[Unusual_Dood]

I do not have much time right now and am on phone so I will keep this short and simple.

I think massclaiming on day 0 is a terrible idea. Since this is a semi-open setup we don’t know which roles exist and in most cases the information will be useless on day 0 since we don’t know if the claim is true or not (masons being one of the exceptions). Additionally mafia will know who’s lying and not (except for a possible SK) so they will benefit greatly with this information. Also, in most games I have seen one of the most common way of figuring out if someone is lying about their role or not is if their role fits the game and actions through the game. In this game this won’t be a problem at all for the mafias, and the major reason being that this is a semi-open setup, and secondly because this is day 0 so mafias have no actions to defend.

I think masons claiming today is also a bad idea. The reason for this is simply that it will reduce the pool of people that can be PRs. By keeping their names hidden, mafias have a decently better chance of ‘missing’ the PRs in their nightkills. The same goes for the SK if he exist as well.

With the incident with Fantome where he supposedly slipped my first thoughts where that when I played mafias I was very aware of not making these mistakes. And I can remember two incidents earlier where a player supposedly slipped and got lynched but was town, so I am not sure about Fantome yet.

When it comes to the lynch vs no-lynch day 0 discussion I have usually been on the no-lynch side because the statistics showing it is favourable for mafias (i think it was something like 1 mafia and 4-5 non-mafia that has been lynched totally in escres mafia history). I think the problem usually have been that mafia has greater influence on the first days lynch due to more town no-lynching, meaning we in almost all cases get either NL og non-mafia lynch (can also be third parties). Instead of some people voting no-lynch and some not, I think it had be wiser if we first voted over if we should no-lynch or lynch. Then if most wants to no-lynch we no-lynch obviously. If, however, most wants to lynch, everyone, even the ones that wanted no-lynch, has to vote on the most suspicious player in their eyes.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

I'm of the opinion lynching Choco is more beneficial since he did the more aggressive accusations against les, but I'm ok with it being les too since lynching anyone is gonna help more than not lynching

Why do you think that makes choco mafia?

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Dammit I planned to backspace 'mafia' and replace it with scum but then I saw UNU's post so I read that and then forgot but scum*

 

[Alisha]

Why do you think that makes choco mafia?

The way he's going about his arguments feels jumpy to me, plus when he asked me why we should lynch earlier, it felt weird to me since Choco's an experienced player and seemed to not know the benefits of lynching vs not lynching. Maybe it's more for meta reasons.

Even if Choco is not scum, I feel it gives better information on fantome since choco jumped on what fantome said first, and tim followed. Where if we lynch fantome, it gives information on choco and tim.

I guess I'm fine with either option now that I worked it out in my head more.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

The way he's going about his arguments feels jumpy to me, plus when he asked me why we should lynch earlier, it felt weird to me since Choco's an experienced player and seemed to not know the benefits of lynching vs not lynching. Maybe it's more for meta reasons.

Even if Choco is not scum, I feel it gives better information on fantome since choco jumped on what fantome said first, and tim followed. Where if we lynch fantome, it gives information on choco and tim.

I guess I'm fine with either option now that I worked it out in my head more.

What conclusions will you make if choco is town/mafia?

Also if lynching fantome gives information on choco and tim, why is that worse than lynching choco? Or are you not using that as a reason for lynching choco over fantome, just that you've realized that now and so you're fine with either option now? Sorry, I'm confused

 

[Alisha]

What conclusions will you make if choco is town/mafia?

Also if lynching fantome gives information on choco and tim, why is that worse than lynching choco? Or are you not using that as a reason for lynching choco over fantome, just that you've realized that now and so you're fine with either option now? Sorry, I'm confused

Choco being town tells me that he was scumhunting like town should do and fantome might be scum

Choco being scum somewhat clears fantome (could still be sk but probably not scum)

 

[MoltenAshes]

About the massclaim question asked earlier, I am very much against massclaiming D0. It is extremely easy for Mafia to claim in a semi-closed system like this.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

What's everybody's opinion of fantome?

 

[Fog]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by 'a question an answer tactic' in case it's a really good idea and the masons are like me and don't understand what you mean?

Like if the Masons collectively come up with a question which has answers that specific players in the game could verify. Or like a statement. So say for example Inffy is a mason and is killed N1, the other Masons could be like "hello XXX & I are the other masons, this can be verified with the statement of - "fog is amazing and we recently celebrated our one year anniversary with me as his GF" (Although I doubt direct copies from the chat will be allowed so paraphrasing would be needed.) But this statement has a connection between me and Inf which I can verify and would "clear" suspicions

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Like if the Masons collectively come up with a question which has answers that specific players in the game could verify. Or like a statement. So say for example Inffy is a mason and is killed N1, the other Masons could be like "hello XXX & I are the other masons, this can be verified with the statement of - "fog is amazing and we recently celebrated our one year anniversary with me as his GF" (Although I doubt direct copies from the chat will be allowed so paraphrasing would be needed.) But this statement has a connection between me and Inf which I can verify and would "clear" suspicions

So basically mason 1 tells mason 2 a personal fact that other players know about in the game and know mason 2 doesn't know, so then when mason 1 dies mason 2 repeats the personal fact to verify that they were masons together?

I think that's probably against the rules as meta if that's what you mean

 

[Alisha]

So basically mason 1 tells mason 2 a personal fact that other players know about in the game and know mason 2 doesn't know, so then when mason 1 dies mason 2 repeats the personal fact to verify that they were masons together?

I think that's probably against the rules as meta if that's what you mean

I agree with the person with the Kyoko mug on this one

What's everybody's opinion of fantome?

Slightly less suspicious than Choco but still lynch worthy

What's everybody's opinion on Inffy?

Oh wait I added that last quote in by myself

I think Inffy is trustable for now, is scumhunting without panicking so far.

 

[Alisha]

without panicking so far.

*more than usual, I mean

 

[MoltenAshes]

What's everybody's opinion of fantome?

I find him the most scum so far, especially the SK remark. I feel like him declaring there's a SK directly is him diverting attention away from reading into the Mafia, or him actually being SK.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

*more than usual, I mean

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[catgirl12466]

I guess since this got brought up, if one Mason dies before the two claim, I'd suggest the other Mason not try to claim solo. I can think of a few worst-case scenarios for that and they either end with two claims battling it out and confusing Town or a night kill to remove a player that Town can trust in the case of an uncontested claim... or maybe I'm just paranoid and it'd be valuable info for Town anyway.

I don't have any suspicions on anyone at the moment, but going by Alisha's logic, Fantome or Choco could give us hints to the other's alignment. If we must lynch, I'm leaning towards Fantome. I think the SK remark was accidental, but their behavior afterwards didn't help their case. If they flip Town, then we get some potential clues on Choco, and possibly Tim.

Also, since I didn't join that conversation earlier due to sleep, HELL NO on massclaim for reasons already stated by others.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

I think choco is probably town right now

I don't know why exactly, just a gut thing I guess

 

[Fog]

So basically mason 1 tells mason 2 a personal fact that other players know about in the game and know mason 2 doesn't know, so then when mason 1 dies mason 2 repeats the personal fact to verify that they were masons together?

I think that's probably against the rules as meta if that's what you mean

HKCaper hmmmm?

 

[Timdood3]

I'll make a detailed post when I get home (if I'm not too tired), but right now, I am wondering if our generous host would allow us to know if the mafia know their partner(s) yet?

 

[fantome]

im actually fine with lynching my self since it would cross out a known claim space for mafia and SK also the whole jobbiitrying to get us seems like a slip to me

 

[Alisha]

im actually fine with lynching my self since it would cross out a known claim space for mafia and SK also the whole jobbiitrying to get us seems like a slip to me

What's gotten into you all of a sudden I thought you would be screaming at everyone else

Cross out a claimspace? That's peculiar...

Also with this post I'm no longer confident on who's scummier, soooooo

unvote

 

[Alisha]

INCOMING CHOCO WRATH, HE RATED A POST OF MINE CONFUSING

 

[Infected_alien8_]

im actually fine with lynching my self since it would cross out a known claim space for mafia and SK also the whole jobbiitrying to get us seems like a slip to me

What do you mean by 'cross out a known claim space'? Also what's the 'whole jobbiitrying to get us'?

 

[fantome]

What do you mean by 'cross out a known claim space'? Also what's the 'whole jobbiitrying to get us'?

I'm saying that mafia tend to try and hide in my role so lynching me would probably help in the long run also jobbii seems to be doing the same thing he does as mafia on discord which is getting a mass claim going to see what is what

 

[Alisha]

I'm saying that mafia tend to try and hide in my role so lynching me would probably help in the long run also jobbii seems to be doing the same thing he does as mafia on discord which is getting a mass claim going to see what is what

Jobbis/TheWeakGuy brought up the massclaim first but didn't recommend going through with it, and the rest of us piled on saying how we don't want to do it so I don't think he deserves that much blame there

What do you mean by 'he's doing the same thing he does as mafia on discord?', so you think he's scum right?

 

[Infected_alien8_]

I'm saying that mafia tend to try and hide in my role so lynching me would probably help in the long run also jobbii seems to be doing the same thing he does as mafia on discord which is getting a mass claim going to see what is what

What game(s) did he do that?

Also job never suggested we massclaim, he said:

Aaaaaaa I'd rather no-lynch. Why? Because in 90% of the cases we end up lynching a townie. Yes, you could argue that the "reads" and other stuff helps us find the scum - yet I've encountered that these reads become outdated and useless once day 1 start. Most common I think is people who argue for lunch because of the reads and then come with zero/small reads (Inffy).
2. SK, if you count that a Mafia role. The other roles don't matter since we'll lynch them in "random" order.
3. No, I think we should withhold as much information as possible on the first day.


About massclaim and general claiming:
We(town) might gain information from it - but so does the Mafia. Remember that this is a semi-open setup, therefor a massclaim will be difficult to handle for town.