Mafia: Saints & Sinners - GAME OVER MAFIA WIN
- Thread starter Stranger from Myst Island
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i mean it wouldnt be weird if it was a day action with no night visit, since sinners roles work like that too, and that obv isnt blockable since its in the day
its the fact that its a day action, yet he visits at night, yet it cant be blocked
why would stranger choose to make aqua visit people at night, even though its a day action, unless it was since she wanted it to be blockable
but that cant be it since it cant be blocked
it just means he can be tracked but whats the point in that
im too tired to think about it properly
i agree with the odds but i think it could be worth it since if it does work it could catch us a scum/prove that aqua's ability is what he says it is, in which case he's either confirmed town or the devil is confirmed third party, which could be great to know either way (for example if devil flips maf we know aqua is extremely likely to be town, since why would maf be able to stop town making deals with the devil if the devil is mafia and the deals presumably benefit them)
and it doesnt work, at least we directed the nightkill onto a sinner instead of a PR
the only major drawback is what the consequence could be in case aqua's lying and the devil ends up accepting tim's second deal, and whether the possibility of having aqua confirmed scum/town is worth the risk of having tim face whatever the consequence is, and since we have no idea what the consequence is its hard to tell
So...Something just occurred to me as I was making a sandwich.
I can't quite process exactly how I'm coming to this thought, since I'll be leaving for work right after I post this.
But I don't think I trust inf.
I want to vote but I can't quite express my thoughts atm so I'll wait until morning.
I can't quite process exactly how I'm coming to this thought, since I'll be leaving for work right after I post this.
But I don't think I trust inf.
I want to vote but I can't quite express my thoughts atm so I'll wait until morning.
i think it depends on skele's claim, since i keep forgetting he's yet to claim
but i think i would be ok with it?
purely since after the massclaim and fog flipping inno and aqua's claim that you and tim are inno i feel like the likelihood of us winning is suddenly a lot less since all my scumreads are looking inno except for vat, and i dont know who i think would be vat's teammates even if i assume im right about him, and idk it just feels like we're really close to losing all of a sudden, so taking the risk of dealing with the devil to potentially prove someone feels worth it now even though it didnt day 0
but idk if thats reasonable or not or whether we still should absolutely avoid making deals
i dunno, im too tired and i need to sleep on it
Finished reading. My apologies once again for missing out.
UNU indeed visited me tonight, but the time we were talking, it was 3 AM for me and after that I totally forgot I was in that chat. Although my reads remain almost the same.
Vat's claim seems like nothing but a joke to me, and I suspected the behavior of his earlier, so...
Vote Vatumok
UNU indeed visited me tonight, but the time we were talking, it was 3 AM for me and after that I totally forgot I was in that chat. Although my reads remain almost the same.
Vat's claim seems like nothing but a joke to me, and I suspected the behavior of his earlier, so...
Vote Vatumok
Oh really? Sure then.
Saint Bernadette. Can reveal someone's role when I die. Last night target was Vatumok
alright that makes what, 5 saint claims versus 7 sinner claims (including sessy and fog)?
i guess that explains why you didnt want to claim, does it only work when you die at night?
bernadette appears to be another actual saint.
i guess that explains why you didnt want to claim, does it only work when you die at night?
bernadette appears to be another actual saint.
Honestly thank you inf because this reasonable post actually gives me the out I couldn't think of myself.
As I have said before a big part of this vote is to reflect on how people have acted throughout the game, and as inf rightly points out for my role to have strong purpose it'd require some for of mafia hypnotist role to force townies to make DWTD's under the assumption none do.
So considering this, if I were making up my claim, please Alisha and Vatumok, pray tell how I have consistently been firm on the existent of a hypnotist role throughout d1 and , after being the first to suggest the existence of the role at the beginning of day 0?
This should also tie to my stance on sinners - obviously there is VERY good reason as to why sinners should not make deals, but it's fairly evident that opinion would also be promoted by immediately seeing a role that blocks them.
This on top of me knowing the Poor Sinners prefix and using it as a way to try and prove alisha/fog off of the back of Tim (the guy I claim to have proven n1, which should explain how I knew 100% he was a poor sinner)
and also how I was pretty accepting and aware of the sinners pr progression being (day 0 request deal, night 2 receive pr) as for my role to work it would need to fit within this time scale.
Without a doubt it's not an ordinary role and from what we know, if right, also pretty useless. But it is consistent with all my actions throughout the game and all the known mechanics in the game - plus we already know of useless townie roles a la Unu (if he's telling the truth) so honestly I see no grounds to lynch me this game.
I agree with inf, I would much rather lynch someone other than us two tonight until more mechanical info is made apparent, vat or
Just to be clear I asked stranger if my role gives any block message and it just appears as if they have been rejected/haven't made a deal. So you wouldn't be able to
Why? We have an uncc'd doctor and Tim has already made the deal thus potentially given mafia the point towards their wincon.
I really don't want to lynch off of the name thing - especially after I recently brought up I make it a point to intentionally throw people off the scent when naming my roles in games so...
Idk it's suspicious to say the least that inf isn't a saint - I think that's the hardest evidence going for him right now, although his phrasing of his claim still seems susp to me.
the general consensus atm seems to be that there are no maf poor sinners to a degree that the devil is part of the maf team, then again most of this is based on flavor and flavor isnt truth. then there are the deals with the devil, that supposedly have 'negative' consequences (still assuming they are negative).
now, inf can cancel deals, which leaves it open for maf to be able to make deals with the devil. however, whats the point in that if the devil is maf. something that has been suggested is that maf have roles that can force deals on sinners, and perhaps thats interesting considering the voodoo flavor. could be maf has 1 devil and 2 voodoo players, that can make a sinner do one of the 3 actions, and works with the theory of maf knowing the poor sinner role from the start. then why did fog's deal get declined? could be maf tried to control fog, hence why his own action didnt work. aqua role works nicely here cus it 1) can confirm poor sinners, 2) can protect them against being influenced within this theory.
also, inf, if you now think (afaik) that devil is mafia, why was there no n1 kill, besides me protecting aqua? There is no indication that besides the maf kill there is another kill in the game. mafia couldnt have been blocked due to the way the deals work. the only two scenario in which i did not prevent aqua from being killed (besides me lying ig) are 1) mafia decided not to kill n1????, 2) devil is 3p and bulletproof and got targetted by maf kill.
now, inf can cancel deals, which leaves it open for maf to be able to make deals with the devil. however, whats the point in that if the devil is maf. something that has been suggested is that maf have roles that can force deals on sinners, and perhaps thats interesting considering the voodoo flavor. could be maf has 1 devil and 2 voodoo players, that can make a sinner do one of the 3 actions, and works with the theory of maf knowing the poor sinner role from the start. then why did fog's deal get declined? could be maf tried to control fog, hence why his own action didnt work. aqua role works nicely here cus it 1) can confirm poor sinners, 2) can protect them against being influenced within this theory.
also, inf, if you now think (afaik) that devil is mafia, why was there no n1 kill, besides me protecting aqua? There is no indication that besides the maf kill there is another kill in the game. mafia couldnt have been blocked due to the way the deals work. the only two scenario in which i did not prevent aqua from being killed (besides me lying ig) are 1) mafia decided not to kill n1????, 2) devil is 3p and bulletproof and got targetted by maf kill.
With all the evidence we do have the likelihood that I'm making up my claim is ridiculously slim yet Alisha and inf seem to be platforming it like it has a 50/50 chance of being true or not which is insane and giving me really bad vibes. If there are mafia sinners and alisha is one I could definitely see her and inf tied - it would definitely explain why she was so willing to be lynched day 0 as that would have really cemented inf as town.
Another tid bit of evidence to support my claim. Now good skele has claimed, if there are no mafia poor sinners, I am effectively the only town cop role, uncc'd with a plethora of evidence supporting me.
I know I'm overreacting considering inf has said he'd rather vote others over me and nobody is actually voting me yet but the fact anyone would consider me being scum this game is malding.
now that i think about it, within my current understanding of the game,
aqua, tim, alisha, unu, and beta seem town to me
that leaves inf, vatu, twg, and skele. If inf is maf, i could see him having prepared that role claim for skele (extra big brain read: he said he forgot skele hadnt claimed which could have happend because he already knew what skele's role is and what he was going to claim). twg and vatu, I wouldnt know, but vibe says vatu is bad, then again vibes were wrong about fog (fence time). seems a bit to easy if i put it this way. aqua could visit one of vatu or twg and that way confirm one of them.
aqua, tim, alisha, unu, and beta seem town to me
that leaves inf, vatu, twg, and skele. If inf is maf, i could see him having prepared that role claim for skele (extra big brain read: he said he forgot skele hadnt claimed which could have happend because he already knew what skele's role is and what he was going to claim). twg and vatu, I wouldnt know, but vibe says vatu is bad, then again vibes were wrong about fog (fence time). seems a bit to easy if i put it this way. aqua could visit one of vatu or twg and that way confirm one of them.
I do have something in mind but would really love Good Skele to respond to
just seems like a role more town suited, but could be stranger is throwing us off.
Other than the fact it wouldn't be a great scum role, what makes it more town suited? You have to bear in mind messenger roles can be both town and scum sided and sometime be both.
i just dont see the point of a maf messenger in this game, then again you are right that i dont really see a point in a town messenger either. i guess in my mind he's neutral, but in my heart he's town. I think it will also come down to where inf and skele fall. now that i think about that, in the scenario where both of them are scum, unu is very likely town. if one of them is scum and one town, whats more likely 3 or 4 saints. 3 feels low. if neither of them are scum, unu is more likely scum.
this game is quite unsettling.
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