Mafia: Saints & Sinners - GAME OVER MAFIA WIN

[Fog]

I’m actually on holiday atm and there’s no internet here.

So here all the posts in the chat regarding what we should do the next day:

Fog: So, do you want to talk about our conversation tonight? Or woud you rather keep it quiet until one of us dies.

Unusual: I’m not sure.

Fog: We could hint at the idea of a conversation, so that if you want to claim it will be more believable.
(i liked this post)

Fog: Tell you what, I’ll leave it up to you, if you want to claim I’ll go along with what you want to reveal.

Fog: Can people just input their night action (emoji)

Night ends



No. And Fogs post also give the same answer.



Vote Fog

I have a question for you then, what is your role? Just Curious <3

 

[Aqua]

this reasoning is strange because the devil can refuse deals anyway.

For the record the only person who has given any evidence to suggest the devil can refuse deals is the person getting lynched.

I think you're painting a pretty skewed when refering to it as "the devil can refuse deals", when in actuality if true, it's more that the devil has to accept deals.

This could mean a variety of things from getting blocked, to accepting a different deal to not knowing who made the deal and having to target players in hopes they have (far less likely I know.)

It was also basically me saying I was gonna make a deal to see what the consequences are to see if it was worth the risk.

'It was also basically me saying "I'm going to go against the wishes of town and actively throw the game"' FTFY

Assuming that all the sinners have told the truth I have the same knowledge on the subject as you, as I have tried to explain numerous times we DO NOT NEED a role blocker or a tracker. Mafia MIGHT NEED Deals With the Devil to win.

Which from theory crafting and now the results of night 1 seem even more likely.

The possibility of the negatives from the DWTD far out way the positives - ESPECIALLY day 1 when a ONE SHOT role blocker is fundamentally useless

Honestly saying that now, I can't believe your claim in the slightest. You were there all yesterday, you understood this. It makes no sense that you would wilfully make a deal with the devil.

 

[Aqua]

extended deadlines encourage inactivity for inactive players

active players don't have the problem of using their available time wisely

Yea how's that working out with us coming ever closer to our second no-lynch of the game? :)

 

[Aqua]

Imo I think only active votes should be counted. This would 1) not stop a lynch just because many people didn’t vote and 2) encourage to more activity of those who aren’t voting.

It would still be majority vote, so you would still need a good agreement to get someone lynched (in differ from top-voted-lynch)

That is how 90% of mafia games (other than day 0's where a full lynch vote is usually required), genuinely don't understand why stranger would do it different but it's their game so w/e I guess

 

[Vatumok]

vat - tbh im having a hard time coming to a conclusion on this but ill say overall semi-moderate scum. his reads are so unrepresentative of what's actually going on the game it's hard to imagine it's genuine even if he's missing bits like he said, his stance on leaving alisha for day 1 doesn't make sense to me either and i think there's probably something else scummy going on there, and i dont like his defence of fog despite all the things fog has done. but it also seems hard to believe he'd be this sloppy and openly scummy as scum considering my past experience with him as scum on discord. so maybe he is genuinely just skim-reading everything and not realising how little of his information is accurate. either way he's extremely lacking this game and im struggling to know what to make of it, but for the reasons above i lean scum atm.

The reason why my votes can seem weird is cuz I do tend to throw out a lot just to see how people react to it. Forum mafia also makes it a lot harder for me to take in all information so I end up missing some things. The reason why I defended Fog is cuz everyone seemed to be diving onto him which is generally a bad sign.

 

[sessybessy]

The reason why my votes can seem weird is cuz I do tend to throw out a lot just to see how people react to it. Forum mafia also makes it a lot harder for me to take in all information so I end up missing some things. The reason why I defended Fog is cuz everyone seemed to be diving onto him which is generally a bad sign.

why is that generally a bad sign?

 

[Good Skele]

he's acting neither memey nor vindictive so he's probably third party like he was in formula mafia

At this point I have the right to say that you can't really read me. Also, I was told that it's better not to be "memey" at this stage of the game!

 

[Vatumok]

why is that generally a bad sign?

Because an innocent person being pushed can much easier get everyone on them as scum and town will both be voting on them. A scummy person will generally not have his teammate push on them. This can definitely depend on setup and if it's a secret hitler kind of deal then maybe devil could be unknowingly pushing teammates.

 

[Fog]

Mafia MIGHT NEED Deals With the Devil to win

So what happens if devil doesn't know who is maf and who is town and the only way to prevent Mafia getting abilities is to block them as town?

 

[sessybessy]

So what happens if devil doesn't know who is maf and who is town and the only way to prevent Mafia getting abilities is to block them as town?

I personally think The Devil might be a ‘leader’ of sorts who calls the shots on what happens. I think they can communicate anonymously. I wouldn’t discredit the theory of The Devil being 3p but flavour text does group mafia and The Devil together and it wouldn’t make sense if they could win by playing Town as well.

 

[Vatumok]

I'm coming around more on Fog lynch as I've gotten more trusting of Inffy and sessy. Fog could def have an inactive team or something that made it so people don't defend him. If he's scum I could see a scum team with one of Tim/Alisha and one of Skele/TheWeakGuy. Only one of Tim and Alisha cuz they were very early to out roles and I doubt they'd be cocky enough to do it while both scum. One of Skele/TheWeakGuy being scum would make sense cuz I think there's an inactive scum around.
Aqua's behaviour is still a bit weird for me how he was so willing to push sinners earlier which are town. If Fog flips maf I'd feel more trusting of him.

Time to bus I mean I'm fine with voting Fog and seeing how it turns out.

unvote
vote Fog

 

[Vatumok]

Also in the case that Fog flips town I would really like to look at HK and Aqua tomorrow.

 

[Aqua]

So what happens if devil doesn't know who is maf and who is town and the only way to prevent Mafia getting abilities is to block them as town?

What? Why would mafia be getting abilities? Do you mean if they were getting deals with the devil?

and once again this does counter a fear of the unknown argument because you're suggesting a hypothetical that still doesn't necessarily play out in towns favour - if that were the case a 1 shot block still has more chance of hitting a townie than scum?

I genuinely cannot comprehend ur thought process here dude the niché situations where it could be beneficial are dwarfed by the mass of possibilities where it's detrimental as at this very point we definitely have no obvious need - we shouldn't do it.

 

[Fog]

What? Why would mafia be getting abilities? Do you mean if they were getting deals with the devil?

and once again this does counter a fear of the unknown argument because you're suggesting a hypothetical that still doesn't necessarily play out in towns favour - if that were the case a 1 shot block still has more chance of hitting a townie than scum?

I think it’s likely that the mafia have the same abilities as the sinners, as looking at it the abilities seem to be more beneficial for a mafia player than a townie.

 

[Aqua]

I think it’s likely that the mafia have the same abilities as the sinners, as looking at it the abilities seem to be more beneficial for a mafia player than a townie.

This is definitely a possibility - haven't given it enough thought to consider how likely it is.

But that still doesn't give a reason why town should make these deals..?

 

[Infected_alien8_]

I'm coming around more on Fog lynch as I've gotten more trusting of Inffy and sessy. Fog could def have an inactive team or something that made it so people don't defend him. If he's scum I could see a scum team with one of Tim/Alisha and one of Skele/TheWeakGuy. Only one of Tim and Alisha cuz they were very early to out roles and I doubt they'd be cocky enough to do it while both scum. One of Skele/TheWeakGuy being scum would make sense cuz I think there's an inactive scum around.
Aqua's behaviour is still a bit weird for me how he was so willing to push sinners earlier which are town. If Fog flips maf I'd feel more trusting of him.

Time to bus I mean I'm fine with voting Fog and seeing how it turns out.

unvote
vote Fog

this is a bizarre 180

why has your opinion of me and sessy changed?

 

[Fog]

This is definitely a possibility - haven't given it enough thought to consider how likely it is.

But that still doesn't give a reason why town should make these deals..?

As I stated in one of my many theories, what if the devil is limited to making only one deal a night and the only way to block him from giving the mafia abilities is for the town to block it

 

[Fog]

this is a bizarre 180

why has your opinion of me and sessy changed?

I will say it seems a bit like “well Fog is gonna get lynched I’m gonna hop on that, but when Fog flips town let’s look at Aqua and HK as this way I don’t die”

 

[Aqua]

As I stated in one of my many theories, what if the devil is limited to making only one deal a night and the only way to block him from giving the mafia abilities is for the town to block it

When you say town to /block it/ do you mean make their own deal forcing the devil to deal with them instead? Or do you literally mean roleblock it, inwhich case that's dumb

 

[Aqua]

When you say town to /block it/ do you mean make their own deal forcing the devil to deal with them instead? Or do you literally mean roleblock it, inwhich case that's dumb

If it is the former I can believe it - again it is a huuuuuge stretch and also wouldn't make sense with your other claim that the devil 'ignored' you (unless another townie made a deal)

But it does sort of play into the one deal per night theory and I guess it could be an interesting mechanic, but based off what we know of the game via claims and theme it seems highly unlikely and too much of a niché situation to make any bold moves like DWTD until better evidence arrives.

There's just too much at stake and not enough to gain.

 

[Fog]

When you say town to /block it/ do you mean make their own deal forcing the devil to deal with them instead? Or do you literally mean roleblock it, inwhich case that's dumb

when I say block I mean the devil makes a deal with town not with mafia - therefore they don’t get the ability

 

[Aqua]

when I say block I mean the devil makes a deal with town not with mafia - therefore they don’t get the ability

refer to my above post.

I am interested then, if you do believe this theory, how you can explain why your DWTD didn't go through last night?

 

[Fog]

refer to my above post.

I am interested then, if you do believe this theory, how you can explain why your DWTD didn't go through last night?

I believe somebody else made a deal and theirs was approved.

 

[Aqua]

I believe somebody else made a deal and theirs was approved.

So since they made a DWTD (presumably by choice) they must have a similar mind set as you that DWTD overall is a pretty protown move.

So I pose you another question, why haven't they come to support your claim?

 

[TheWeakGuy48_]

Wait, why is Fog being voted?