12 Angry Gunners - Game Complete!
- Thread starter Alisha
- Start date
responses to dess:
but also I interpreted hip's response as a joke too, so maybe hk did as well, therefore he'd still not understand why hip is pushing him
or he might've interpreted hip's response as serious but just found it unlikely that hip interpreted hk's vote on him as anything but a silly, probably-irrelevant-to-alignment joke, and so interpret hip as using it as an excuse to push hk when in reality he has a secret proper reason for suspecting him (having a guilty report on him)
basically I could easily see possibilities for hk seeing hip as pushing hk for no reason so I don't find it weird hk would interpret it this way
(yeah UNU was the only one who indicated he thought I didn't have a gun)
I don't find the shift to being serious odd
but you're right I agree notty staying alive makes games more fun so I wouldn't want to kill them n1 since they're incredibly active, but also mafia's a team game so hey maybe my team disagreed with me! or maybe I thought notty was actually going to shoot me the next day so killed notty because it was either that or die myself!
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that then. Personally I thought hk's posts were clearly jokes, so the fact ltin took them serious, even though by default I think he wouldn't, made me think he was in a defensive mindset. Since it was the start of the game and nobody else had accused ltin of anything before hk's posts against him (the ones I interpret to be jokes), that meant ltin's defensive mindset probably came from something that happened right at the start of the game, and the only thing I can think of is his role. I don't think ltin would be nervous of being lynched as town PR since he barely ever gets lynched so I don't think it was him being a PR that made him more defensive, so I think it's much more likely it's him being a scum role that's making him be more defensive, because the worry of being lynched is greater when you're scum so I could see that being what caused him to be more defensive, and I can't think of any alternatives that I find more likely.
because unlike you I'm not assuming there is no mafia gunner, I think there could easily be a mafia role with a gun, especially since ltin has clearly showed his scummness imo by shooting me for 0 reason, which unlike you I don't interpret as him being lazy and missing posts, since I find it hard to believe that ltin conveniently missed my posts where I quoted him like twice/three times. It seems far more likely to me that he ignored them since he's scum
yeah, I interpret as him ignoring it, because I find it hard to believe he accidentally didn't see the posts where I gave him an alert notification via quoting him, and ltin doesn't usually skip posts
fair enough I guess
still, this was after hip already started pushing on hk, so even if hip now develops a proper reason for suspecting hk (based on hk's posts voting hip), I could still see hk thinking hip's initial push on hk came from nowhere and wondering if he's cop with a guilty on him, as the miller
but also I interpreted hip's response as a joke too, so maybe hk did as well, therefore he'd still not understand why hip is pushing him
or he might've interpreted hip's response as serious but just found it unlikely that hip interpreted hk's vote on him as anything but a silly, probably-irrelevant-to-alignment joke, and so interpret hip as using it as an excuse to push hk when in reality he has a secret proper reason for suspecting him (having a guilty report on him)
basically I could easily see possibilities for hk seeing hip as pushing hk for no reason so I don't find it weird hk would interpret it this way
oh okay, I thought you meant 'if we ignore the valid possibility that he was joking,' and i was confused why you were ignoring that possibility, but if you just don't interpret it as a joke then fair enough
(yeah UNU was the only one who indicated he thought I didn't have a gun)
I don't think that strategy would actually do any good though. If I can easily defuse the situation by quoting the fact I shot ltin then it's not like hk having cast some subtle doubt on me would do anything, and given how experienced hk is I doubt he'd have thought it would have done
the way I interpreted this intially was 'hk: meme vote on hip as a response to hip suspecting him.' 'later hk: actually maybe hip is cop and has guilty on me, i should probably address that.'
I don't find the shift to being serious odd
okay
I don't think he needed to mention them again though? He said his piece about ltin, so if he's town I don't necessarily expect him to repeat it. The part about why he suggested we think about notty's death and then never followed up on it, I can see why you might find that weird actually, but I can think of reasons that'd happen if he were town, although HKCaper should probably explain that himself so that I'm not giving him excuses
to be fair I could get away with killing notty via wifom, like you're demonstrating now by saying 'you'd never kill notty if you were mafia because it'd shine light on you' - well maybe that's just what I wanted you to think! but I do also know that people could then realise 'wait maybe that's what inf was banking on us thinking, maybe inf is scum!!' so it'd be a risk. but then people could think 'maybe the mafia thought we would think this and blame inf for it and so they're framing inf and he's actually innocent!!', and then people could think 'but maybe that's what inf WANTS us to think!!' etc etc. so it'd just depend on which 'layer' of wifom reasoning I thought people would be likely to stop at that'd determine whether I thought I would get away with it or not
but you're right I agree notty staying alive makes games more fun so I wouldn't want to kill them n1 since they're incredibly active, but also mafia's a team game so hey maybe my team disagreed with me! or maybe I thought notty was actually going to shoot me the next day so killed notty because it was either that or die myself!
idk, to me it doesn't seem weird at all. the post was just essentially 'yeah I think mafia gunner is unlikely so I townread ltin and we shouldn't vote him. also, we could think of why notty died, maybe that'd help us find scum.' I could see a townie having those two thoughts in the same post easily
okay fair enough
I agree I think hk thought hip was cop - why is that weird though?
fair enough I guess
what do you mean?
anyways we only have a few hours left so I suggest everyone makes some kind of vote so that we get as much info as possible for tomorrow
Good Skele Ltin TheWeakGuy48_ Unusual_Dood
i felt earlier that alisha gave the gunner template at start, so massclaim day 0 wouldnt fuck mafia over as they wouldnt be able to fully know what the gunner role was. If mafia had gunners they would know and therefore it would be unnecesary to give the template. But then i realized that even if mafia had 1 gunner, the rest would still be vulnerable to such a play. Also, the whole line of reasoning felt meta-ish and i didnt like it so much. Just thought i should mention it.
ANGRY VOTECOUNTHKCAPER - 4 (TIMDOOD3, HIPMEOW, STRANGER FROM PLANET NINE, DESS) [S-2]
LTIN - 2 (INFECTED_ALIEN8_, MOOGLIE) [S-4)
Deadline: Set to December 14th at 11:00PM UTC - 7 Hours Left!!!!!
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You seem pretty focused on the idea that people are using things you did on day zero against you, but I don't see that. All of my reasons for suspecting you are from today. Just wanted to make that clear.
I'm not opposed to the checking you plan, but at this point the only other lynch is Ltin, and as far as I'm concerned he's a confirmed gunner.
The question then becomes is it preferable to lynch a confirmed gunner over a PR claim. Honestly...I don't really think so. I'd rather have a confirmed townie in the mix.
So, let's have a look at the philosophy behind including HK's role in the setup:
If town, its intended use is to protect townies from themselves. This somewhat counteracts the vigilantism mindset that comes with a setup full of guns as a sort of day doctor.
If mafia, its intended use is to protect mafia members from a large populace of people with guns. The mafia is very vulnerable to guns, and would definitely need a way to protect themselves.
If we assume that HK is town, then from a setup-creation perspective, I'm going to conclude based on his role that there are no mafia gunners. If there were mafia gunners, town would need a role to counteract them to some extent, and this is the closest thing to that we've seen. I think if there were mafia gunners, the role would be more akin to choosing a player and making their shot auto-miss, making the role more like a roleblocker.
TL;DR I'm more comfortable lynching HK over Ltin because as far as I'm concerned Ltin is confirmed gunner and an HK lynch will give us more information about the setup with a concrete role reveal even if he's town.
why are you so certain that having a gun means you're town?
what do you mean with this last paragraph? surely it makes more sense for there to be mafia gunners if hk is town, since then his role would function as a way to stop mafia shooting town in the day as well as using their nightkill? which to me is more believable than a town role solely designed to protect town from other town
I don't really find Ltin that supicious, I would probably have done the same in his position. However his role is now completly useless and he will be a suspect for the rest of the game if he is not lynched today.
HKCaper however I find more suspicious especially his miller claim which makes it impossible (from what I can see) to fully prove him. Also having his role exposed significantly decrease the efficiency of his role, so it was weird he claimed so early but maybe he had to to survive.
I assume I would prefer HKCaper lynched more, but that also means we might take down a PR in difference from Ltin who wasted his ability and likely he will be lynched tomorrow or another day anyway, so I again assume we could lynch Ltin first because HKCaper isn't going anywhere anyway and he might be able to prove himself someday (have no belief in this though).
you'd have shot me for not shooting you yet even though I said I was waiting for more people's opinions? why??
yeah the only way would be if there's 1 maf left and hk is proven to do his night action while mafia also killed someone, but we don't know for sure if mafia have the ability to do more than one action per night or if any given kill is definitely a mafia one, so he'd never be 100% proven (but neither will anyone else since even if someone's inno'd by cop they could still be investigative immune/someone interfered with who the cop targets)