Republic - Completed

Mooglie

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we... really don't. Have a 100% chance of lynching right every 2 days,
inf was talking about a mafia CCing a power role, so if you lynch the PR on first day then you 100% lynch a mafia (the CC) the next day

im still on phone so ill respond more later
tbh on that note does anyone elses autocorrect bug out on the forums like it will claim to correct it but it doesn't
 
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LISTINGS09

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also meant to add in my opinion the third person should n o t claim
How is that going to work if one of the Mafia falsely claim a role? If no-one contests all three claims we're good. Otherwise H/FL could be claiming a false role, and the two real roles who haven't claimed will just assume they're safe.

If it plays out we have three people we can trust and vote in and as you said yourself maf won't target them as they don't want to get fucked over.

Anyone against this is very suspicious.
 
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Aqua

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this is fearmongering imo
I find Aqua frustrating but I kinda very sliightly town-read him but not enough to trust him, just his weird attacks on notty earlier trying to brush her being mafia under the carpet seemed kind of typical for a townie aqua to do since I feel like he tends to interpret people's posts in the most incriminating and schemeing ways possible as town out of paranoia, but he could have just faked it obviously
o k
Shit, I didn't see the format thing.
elect: Hunter, Aqua, Infected_alien8_, Enderfive, Faliara
I don't understand, if you believe me, fali and ender are town then why not replace one of us with another potential maf? We only /really/ need 2 likely townies as representatives (fair enough this could result in a council made up of three mafia. However, it's more likely one of the other 3 will be a townie and support the other two townies. Besides in the case 3 unconfirmed do make it to the council together, we can be sceptical of their alignment report, with no real harm done). You should swap one of us out for notty.
Just because her maths was wrong that doesn't mean that the chances of us successfully lynching will not still be significantly worse if we have a pool of 26 players as opposed to 13, because obviously it will.
o k
(legitimately really thrown off by the triple negative here, fairs I did just wake up, but I THINK what you're saying is retarded)

Also I think we should do oog's plan and then go to a full mass claim if we need to (depending on how many civ claims we get)
iirc Ooglie101's plan was to just have the 5 most useless pr's claim their specific PR. This would decrease your dumb statistics even more inf as it would increase the pool for potential mafia. In this scenario mafia can claim a PR role as well as civilian without claiming specifics and you wouldn't be able to prove it.

Like HK has been saying mafia never goes the way you plan. Why are you so hard set on using a strategy over your intuition and ability to read people like... idk... ANY OTHER MAFIA GAME.

and don't go and quote notty's post saying if town makes 1 mistake they lose because once again IT IS WRONG and shows 1 scenario out of the possible millions.

this is fearmongering imo
I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it once again.

Like in most games when Nottykitten 's mafia she is using pretty basic manipulation/debating tactics in order to try and manipulate town (this game strawmanning, incite to anger, appealing to ignorance and , as jivvi noted, fear-mongering.)

If notty were protown and genuinely did believe this strategy to be the best way forward for town, she wouldn't have to undermine my argument by misrepresenting me or insulting me. Either she would be able to prove me wrong by logic which she still hasn't done, as she still hasn't given a logical response to any of my accusations/counterpoints to her arguments or would give up on her strategy as it is flawed in the ways I and others have pointed out.

This basically leads us to three out comes notty's either:

being an arrogant townie and refusing to respond to me properly because for some reason her head's up her arse and she doesn't think I'm worthy of a response.

Mafia and has no way of debating those who oppose her/people wanting her to claim thus tries and ignore (as I said brush under the rug) or strawman to make them look stupid as she has been doing.

and thirdly, she's trying to buy time to think of some way of making an uncountable argument with as many exits as possible so she won't be pinned and can evade suspicion when her strategy proves antitown

^if you don't believe the third one as earlier she strawmanned this point trying to take the piss out of me, look at tavern arcana where she did just this (which I called her out for and was ignored by sheep townies so please don't fall for this again town <3)

Anyway.

As I have made pretty clear the downside to notty claiming compared with the positives is incredibly minor and this would prove so much whilst helping town actually move in the right direction, whether being able to trust notty infallibly or being sceptical of her innocence.

@inf (shitty forums wont let me tag rip) - you understood why I wanted notty to claim before, as another big presence in this game who supports notty's strat, do you think she should claim? and if no, why? what are the downsides and how do they outway the positives?

@oog same with you, ya little cuckboi shill
 

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Holy fuck it's hard to read 6 pages of two people going back and forth

sploorky for vibes compared to last game (though he was 3p last game so this isn't a great point i guess) + wanting to waste time by faffing about with a democracy and 'waiting to see if it struggles' or whatever he said, which it obviously will
You're right, using last game vs this game isn't a great point, considering yesterday I made sure to note I was running a fevor, wasn't fully myself, and tried to post at a minimum because I didn't feel well. And I'm not 'waiting to see if it struggles' I would want to wait to see if the amount of kills during the night are truly 3/4 or if there's some lucky breaks during the night. Case in point, aqua's last game where mafia kept getting screwed over the first few nights.

I looked at Notty's statistics of winning if we flip to autocracy, which seems all well and good(besides some blatantly incorrect math that neither Notty nor Inf(not necessarily that Inf needs to) have responded to). But I feel like there's something missing, I don't want to metagame but Priz is insanely experienced at mafia and he designed this game with JK, another pro. I don't think one of the two systems of government is set up to be an autolose for town. I haven't found that 'missing link' but I'll be honest in saying I haven't looked too hard at it.

Massclaim is probably fine but idk about Day 1, frankly I don't think a massclaim is going to happen on day 1 just because of how reluctant the majority is. I'm not one of the three PR's that are supposed to claim. I'll vote on reps later today because I need to get ready for work now.
 
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Mooglie

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This basically leads us to three out comes notty's either:

being an arrogant townie and refusing to respond to me properly because for some reason her head's up her arse and she doesn't think I'm worthy of a response.

Mafia and has no way of debating those who oppose her/people wanting her to claim thus tries and ignore (as I said brush under the rug) or strawman to make them look stupid as she has been doing.

and thirdly, she's trying to buy time to think of some way of making an uncountable argument with as many exits as possible so she won't be pinned and can evade suspicion when her strategy proves antitown
OR notty's busy until atleast 30th may (infs and nottys birthday for all interested btw!!) due to school stuff
@oog same with you, ya amazing and cool person :sunglasses:
i dont see the point in notty claiming randomly if we're not doing a proper mass claim but if we do decide to do a mass claim then sure notty can go first i dont really see why it matters

again i'll respond more but i just spent like 2.5 hours cleaning and my life is empty ok bye
 
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Nottykitten

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I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it once again.

Like in most games when Nottykitten 's mafia she is using pretty basic manipulation/debating tactics in order to try and manipulate town (this game strawmanning, incite to anger, appealing to ignorance and , as jivvi noted, fear-mongering.)
You mean I'm using solid logic to explain why literally all your points are bad. Also you say I'm manipulating with logic meanwhile you throw around the word 'exploit' 50 times as if me playing last game smartly was somehow me exploiting the game, way to talk negatively about me.

If notty were protown and genuinely did believe this strategy to be the best way forward for town, she wouldn't have to undermine my argument by misrepresenting me or insulting me. Either she would be able to prove me wrong by logic which she still hasn't done, as she still hasn't given a logical response to any of my accusations/counterpoints to her arguments or would give up on her strategy as it is flawed in the ways I and others have pointed out.
I can undermine losing strategies all I want, and I'm not misinterpreting you but yes I am insulting you for gamethrowing last game. I have proven you wrong by logic. I have given a logical response. My strategy is to not lose, I can't see how thats flawed.

and thirdly, she's trying to buy time to think of some way of making an uncountable argument with as many exits as possible so she won't be pinned and can evade suspicion when her strategy proves antitown
This is the most stupid argument ever. I was sleeping the past 12 hours is that illegal now? Youre right though my dream was entirely me trying to come up with the perfect argument, it was totally not about roller skates.

^if you don't believe the third one as earlier she strawmanned this point trying to take the piss out of me, look at tavern arcana where she did just this (which I called her out for and was ignored by sheep townies so please don't fall for this again town <3)
Stop trying to put words in my mouth or say that I did things in earlier games when I didn't. In claires game you were crying 'waaaaa waaa waaaa Notty isn't claiming their ability because theyre taking as much time as possible to come up with the perfect role waa waaa why does nobody see this waaaa'. Meanwhile I had already come up with my fake claim before I even claimed to have the tower card so congratz youre wrong. I was using logic to explain why I wasn't claiming last game too but you seem to be tunnelvisioning(OHNO NOTTY USING MANIPULATIVE WORDS AGAIN WAAA) me as usual ignoring any logic, saying I did things I didn't and then calling me manipulative. I'm pretty tired of arguing against these blatant lies and unless you can come up with something that is an actual argument and not just calling me manipulative and strawmanning or whatever I'm going to stop responding to you.
 

Aqua

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OR notty's busy until atleast 30th may
She did reply tho, she just failed to address any of the major points in detail, instead choosing to mock me and give general roundabout answers

Besides I am also busy, as I was the past 2 games but according to you two that's not an excuse so I do not accept it <3
 

Aqua

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You mean I'm using solid logic to explain why literally all your points are bad. Also you say I'm manipulating with logic meanwhile you throw around the word 'exploit' 50 times as if me playing last game smartly was somehow me exploiting the game, way to talk negatively about me.
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'Lets execute 4% of a plan that I'm arguing against while the town hasn't decided if this is the plan to do yet XDXDXDXDXDXD'. Yes let me claim my role and then have this game desolve into a non-massclaim dead democracy and we'll lose even harder your plans are always so sharp Aqua.
Misrepresenting what I said completely and trying to make me look stupid

Yeah the hidden flaw is that it's the only way for town to actually win this game, which is a flaw because this game is supposed to be unwinnable for town but I found the loophole suck it Priz.
Again not actually addressing the fact that you could be using the same strat again, instead choosing to make a joke

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A google doc hahahahaha, don't presume I play this game like you do. Also there is this thing called school which have a thing called deadlines and if I don't make those deadlines there is this thing called failing classes because you see some days I actually do have this thing called a life.
This is dumb and clearly attempting to incite anger over me using a google doc in my game? Not sure tbh. Eitherway is an excuse for why she wasn't responding but still doesn't address any of my points.

You are all quite hilarious with your 'massclaims are bad' and proceed to not be worried at all by how theres going to be 2-3 kills every single night and we won't be able to win even if we lynch all Mafia's in a row.

Literally didn't say anything close to this, strawmanning at it's finest.
 
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Aqua

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Even still with this half arsed and rude response to my pretty straight forward genuine mistrust and questions of notty and her strat, I made another post expanding on your S O L I D logic which you have yet responded to.

Besides, it's illegal to have a life or do work when playing mafia, you of all people should know this <3

And I cba to quote all the nos, but why not?

Rather than trying to be funny, why don't you explain yourself?


We've already established the majority of the PR roles are none-essential and that you claiming your role would make your strategy much more believable in my eyes and I'm sure that of others too.

In the small unlikely situation you are an important town PR you've basically outed yourself anyway which is unfortunate but you might as well claim up so we can move forward.

Literally never said this. Besides Revolutionary can and likely will kill mafia, on top of the assassin town kill and the town doctor being able to protect those they deem townie depending on how good at reading people they are). and the Subversive being able to roleblock a potential maf if/when we shift to autocracy.

Hunter has pointed out the flaws in your math which you have casually ignored.


At this point if you are not elected as a rep tonight and lynched tomorrow I will be in a state of shock but then again you've managed to worm out of lynches before so I dread what will happen this game.

I hope I have support in saying claim or die from the other townies in this game because it's quite obviously the best course of action now.
 

HKCaper

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Can we just do oog's thing.

The more i think about it, the more i like the idea that all citizens claim.

If all dessenters also claim to be citizen we have incredible odds at getting dessenters, since there will be more fake citizen claims then real ones.

If not all dessenters claim citizen, they will get fucked by possible massclaim later on.

Am i missing anything?
 

Aqua

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So I've only just got home and quickly caught up to the best of my ability on everything tho I'm shattered af.

Since the number of "useful" town PRs in this game is rather small and I believe it would be unlikely for notty to suggest this plan as a civilian as it could result in her being lynched early on and as an avid mafia player I'm sure she wouldn't want that, I'd like Nottykitten to claim.

As she mentioned earlier with her plan from the previous game, there were some counterplays for mafia that she had thought of when suggesting the idea. This could be the same in this game with some big hole in her plan that townies are over looking that she wants to exploit.

Also as per usual with massclaims those who suggest it should always claim first and this would solidify her as a proven townie if she were to claim pr and be uncc'd.

-----------

Also I feel I might be missing something but wouldn't installing a dictator everyday would support a revolutionary victory? With 2 pr's dying every night it's not too unlikely for us to be stuck without a doctor and the revolutionary still at large killing the dictator every night.

and with notty's post about how one mislynch could result in town losing, couldn't the same be said for dictator night kill? We wouldn't even know to adapt and change our play style if it were as dictator kills show no alignment or role info. It also iirc didn't give a scenario where the revolutionary would be lynched/nightkilled which is entirely possible.
Here's my original questioning of notty for those who dont want to search btw. Please actually compare what I'm asking to what she said and tell me she is giving me "solid logic" rather than insulting me and dancing around the questions.

and

Can we just do oog's thing.

The more i think about it, the more i like the idea that all citizens claim.

If all dessenters also claim to be citizen we have incredible odds at getting dessenters, since there will be more fake citizen claims then real ones.

If not all dessenters claim citizen, they will get fucked by possible massclaim later on.

Am i missing anything?
iirc Ooglie101's plan was to just have the 5 most useless pr's claim their specific PR. This would decrease your dumb statistics even more inf as it would increase the pool for potential mafia. In this scenario mafia can claim a PR role as well as civilian without claiming specifics and you wouldn't be able to prove it.
It's worse than doing notty's thing
 

HKCaper

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Well if letting the citizens claim wasnt oog's plan (i thought inffy said it was i didnt recal fully).

Can we still do it? (the citizen claim plan that is, lets call it operation vaniller)
 

Mooglie

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Besides I am also busy, as I was the past 2 games but according to you two that's not an excuse so I do not accept it <3
i would respond but you've made it clear that you dont want your mistakes made public <3
It's worse than doing notty's thing
what im confused about what you're saying
im not saying the 5 useless PRs say which one they are, its the same as doing 3 useless PRs and going to democracy??
unless thats not what ur saying
 

Mooglie

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oh maybe I misunderstood/misread ur strat, mb. can you type it out again?
we decide which 5 PRs are most useless (ret/veng/bulletproof/??/??) and then people claim if they are 1 of them (literally the exact same as the 3 people plan)
all citizens claim (5 real ones + however many fake mafia/revo claims)
remaining 8 useful PRs remain unclaimed as to keep their identity secret (maf wont know who is doc/assassin/whoever so they cant kill them off immediately)
mafia/revo are forced at this point to either claim citizen now or be forced into a counterclaim later on in the game

-scenario 1 where theres a great number of citizen claims-
the 5 claimed PRs become representatives and elect a dictator amongst them to avoid mafia knowing who it is
start whittling through the citizen claim list, later on in the game where a good number of mafia/citizens are dead, we go onto claiming the actual alive useful PRs who didnt claim today to whittle out counterclaims

-scenario 2 where theres not a great number of citizen claims-
uhh tbh i havent thought this one through, we'd be forced into a big mass claim which evidently isnt what a lot of people want

honestly i thought this plan was good BUT jivvi brought up granny being amongst citizen claims so investigative roles will end up hitting them and dying which is unfortunate, in an ideal world we'd murder the granny asap but like hk said this is mafia nothing goes to plan!

this game is stressful but i feel like this plan is middleground between the full mass claimers and the anti mass claimers
 

Aqua

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-scenario 2 where theres not a great number of citizen claims-
uhh tbh i havent thought this one through, we'd be forced into a big mass claim which evidently isnt what a lot of people want

honestly i thought this plan was good BUT jivvi brought up granny being amongst citizen claims so investigative roles will end up hitting them and dying which is unfortunate, in an ideal world we'd murder the granny asap but like hk said this is mafia nothing goes to plan!

this game is stressful but i feel like this plan is middleground between the full mass claimers and the anti mass claimers
This was my point^ -granny bit which was a good shout from jivvi anyway ciao