Declined [Zombie] Forest Temple

[Catcocomics]

Map name: Forest Temple
Map Author: Catcocomics
Game Type: Zombie
Map World Border: Self-contained
Download: /warp Forest_Temple (if you forget the hyphen, it will take you to one of my old builder plots)
Round Time: 10 minutes, change it later if we have to.
Minimum Players: 4
Prep Time: 2 minutes at the least, I think, perhaps 3. There are some simple puzzles, and you might enter late.
Spawn Locations:

Spoiler

Survivors: Just outside the courtyard

Dark Hunter(s): Boss Room (basement level)

Regular Hunters may spawn at either point.

Kits:

Spoiler

everything you need lies in the shulker boxes

Block Restrictions: nothing can be broken or placed by anything and anyone. however, redstone should interact normally with people and blocks.
Fall Damage: disable
Percentage Drop Rate: 100%, but bear in mind that I have put a curse of vanishing on everything that shouldn't drop.

More Images:

Spoiler

P.S.
*There are things hidden (in plain sight) where you may not normally expect, so look carefully
*happy mob fest

P.P.s.
*You'll find that your clothes will refuse to come off.

 

[Comp]

Hey cat thanks for submitting the map.

I went to have a look around on Create, but I noticed a bit of a problem. From the starting spawn point, I couldn't find any way into the main temple. You also don't have any blocks being able to be broken so you can't intend for survivors to mine through the gate.
If there is a redstone mechanism for it I also couldn't find it, but if this is the case then probably it shouldn't be that complicated.
Anyway, if you could fix the problem, (or tell me I've been a noob), then get back to me and I'll check out the rest of the map.

Thanks!

 

[Catcocomics]

ComputerGuy_ I simply forgot to open that bit up after using //walls or //set.
Try now

 

[Catcocomics]

but you may need to add a fuck ton more chests

Firstly, I put mostly monster eggs and food in the chests and containers, since I kind of felt like I wanted the kits to have their own balances in offense/defense (with the jugger and dark hunter being a bit exceptional at both) as well as some added utility to kits lacking in combat.
All the kits start with what I feel is their appropriate armor and weaponry, so there wasn't really any point in putting such things in the chests.

Secondly, you didn't quite look closely enough when searching for chests. If your eye is careful, it will notice some boxes that I have hidden literally in plain sight.

as a hint, the checkerboard room contains a bunch of said boxes.

Also, before anyone goes in and triggers this, there is a double trapped chest hooked up to a hidden passage. If you open that chest without first blocking the signal, then it will drop gravel and I will have to come and fix it.
For reference, this chest is on a balcony in the inner courtyard without a bridge, and said balcony is reached by climbing vines from another balcony.

Spoiler

this balcony in the corner

By the way, I'd appreciate the time set to eternal evening, and kit selection would also be appreciated for hunters and survivors.[/Spoiler]

 

[Iggish]

Ok before I can properly decide on this map, there are a lot of stuff which in my opinion need fixing
1.The Flow of the Map. There are many camping spots on this map.

Spoiler: Camping spot 1

Afaik this is the only way up into this tunnel which can be easily be camped with a bow and arrow. Only 1 hunter kit has enderpearls and so it would be very hard to access if a significant number of survivors were camping it.

I think another way up needs to be added to avoid mass camping. This is the case in many places on the map.

Spoiler: Camping Spot 2

Forget only one way up. No ways up is even worse. There is a readily available supply of enderpearls for survivors all over the map and so they can easily enderpearl over to the door. When on the outside they can snipe people and as mentioned before, only one hunter kit has enderpearls making this extremely unfair for hunters. Please add a way up.

Also, there are loads of enderpearls in the map and there are very little places to tp to on the map, it is mainly corridors.

Spoiler: Camping Spot 3

Once again this can be abused with bowspam.

Spoiler: Camping Spot 4 + 5

This is very campy too. And afaik there is no way up to Camping spot 5.

2.Kits. Honestly, the kits are very confusing and the only way I could see if they were even or balanced would be if I actually played with them ingame.

3. Chests. Ok, this is one of the most prominent issues IMO. Despite what Poe said, there are loads of chests on this map. The only items in these shulker boxes / chests are potions and mob eggs. The potions aren't the problem and the lack of weapons and armour aren't the problem either. What is the problem is the insane quantity of mob eggs which survivors and hunters can access. With the eggs which the kits have and the eggs in the chests, I can't see any other outcome then this map becoming a massive clusterfuck every single time. To give an idea of just how crazy the egg rate is:

Spoiler: Spoiler

All these chests are in one room. Consider just how many mobs would be spawned.

Spoiler: Screenshots

 

[Poe]

why no weapons or armour in the chests :c

 

[Catcocomics]

why no weapons or armour in the chests :c

As I've previously explained, the kits come with the weapons and armor that I feel they should have. It would therefor be unwise to put armor or weapons into a chest because
A. "oh, a wood sword... hmmm, but don't I have an enchanted iron sword?"
B. "oh, an enchanted diamond sword!" *wins the round because op offense and defense combo*.

And for those who weren't with us, Iggish and I went through the map and dealt with a number of his listed problems, mainly the accessibility issues.

As far as bow-spam is concerned, two kits on both teams get shields, which negate bow-spamming fairly well.
The only two kits without a bow are Stalfos and Blue Bubble.

[Edit] By the way, the dark hunters should have their survivor gear cleared and be teleported into the dark hunter spawn room as soon as they are chosen

 

[Guest35486]

Hi Catco, thanks for submitting the map!

Round Time: 10 minutes, change it later if we have to.
Minimum Players: 4

The map might be a bit too big for only four players? I get that the round time is long, but people might get bored and leave instead.

Block Restrictions: nothing can be broken or placed by anything and anyone. however, redstone should interact normally with people and blocks.

I can easily enderpearl behind the bars here. If the Hunter(s) do not have enderpearls and no staff members are online, this may be an issue.

Spoiler

Spawn Eggs

There are too many spawn eggs. I've included some examples.

Spoiler

Each Hunter kit also has at least 4 spawn eggs. Blue Bubble has 16. Dark Hunter/Phantom Ganon has 32. This is going to be incredibly annoying to fight through, especially in narrow corridors like:

Spoiler

(This is where one of the chests shown above is located, too.)

Another issue with these spawn eggs is that it will cause lag. I suggest reducing them.

Kits

2.Kits. Honestly, the kits are very confusing and the only way I could see if they were even or balanced would be if I actually played with them ingame.

I agree with Iggy here. I have some concerns at first glance though:
Juggernaut/Fierce Diety - I'm not sure if Protection II is needed on each piece of diamond armor, since the Hunters only get pieces of leather or chain.
Hunter kits - Many of them don't have swords. I would suggest giving them swords especially if they have to fight through so many mobs.
(And the spawn eggs issue I brought up earlier)
Young Hero (Survivor) - I'm not sure if you know this, but Totem of Undying doesn't work in AoD if I recall correctly.

Spoiler

Also, before anyone goes in and triggers this, there is a double trapped chest hooked up to a hidden passage. If you open that chest without first blocking the signal, then it will drop gravel and I will have to come and fix it.

Can you elaborate on this? I didn't want to mess with anything. Where is the hidden passage? Is there anything inside the chest?

The Map

The map itself seems hard to navigate, especially as a survivor without night vision. This may discourage players who are not familiar with the map.
This area cannot be accessed without enderpearls.

Spoiler

This area requires a large loop to access the second level without an enderpearl.

Spoiler

Overall, it seems like the players will have more difficulty reaching each other, rather than focusing on the PvP aspect of the game. I believe that this concept will not work well for the server, especially since this is a Zombie map. Please correct me if I'm mistaken about anything. Unless you make some significant changes, I have to go with a -1.

 

[Catcocomics]

Maybe I need to rethink this. I kind of had a swarm of ideas, and then I did something where it's like "oh, let's try hiding shulker boxes in plain sight", but then I realized that with the way kits are set up, it wouldn't do to put swords and armor in the boxes because that would be like, why even have such specific kits?

But some points that I can immediately explain:

Can you elaborate on this? I didn't want to mess with anything. Where is the hidden passage? Is there anything inside the chest?

From where you took the screenshot below, look right, and you will find the chest in question. I do believe if you view it in spectator mode, it will not trigger.

And to go further, this very chest opens up the way to get into the raised platform you were concerned about in this picture

The passage is on the central platform in the room with little stone spires sticking out of magma blocks, and it drops down into a checker-floor room that is connected to that very door.


Now, some quick fixes I could probably apply in a few minutes with little problem:

Spawn Eggs

There are too many spawn eggs. I've included some examples.

I'm thinking now my best solution would be to completely remove all chest spawn eggs (except for a few that only the dark hunter is meant to reach down in the basement).
I'll also cut down on kit spawn eggs, but they will still have some spawn eggs, and curse of vanishing should make them virtually unobtainable for survivors.
I will, however, be removing food from survivor kits entirely (except for any gold apples they might have).
This way I can still have the shulker boxes be sort of relevant, and maybe I'll put special arrows in, too.

This area requires a large loop to access the second level without an enderpearl.

Spoiler

I can add jump pads to help with this.

This area cannot be accessed without enderpearls.

Spoiler

This I can fix with vines, since the checker room is blocked on this side by vines.

Young Hero (Survivor) - I'm not sure if you know this, but Totem of Undying doesn't work in AoD if I recall correctly.

Spoiler

Try having the totem in main hand or off hand when dying. Otherwise, replace with a single notch apple with curse of vanishing.


I think, apart from all that, I should rework the kit balances. Mainly with Fierce Deity and Forest Spirit being a little too tanky for survivors.
Though, if all hunters start as Phantom Ganon/Dark Hunter on Jugger Rounds, it may be well warranted for Fierce Deity to keep prot 2.
Would it be possible to make only dark hunters spawn on jugger rounds?

 

[Catcocomics]

And to go further, this very chest opens up the way to get into the raised platform you were concerned about in this picture
The passage is on the central platform in the room with little stone spires sticking out of magma blocks, and it drops down into a checker-floor room that is connected to that very door.

Oh my goodness, I just looked, and it was actually an eye-switch that opens it!
The chest it safe, but make sure there isn't a current coming from it before adding the map.

Changes:

Mob egss have been greatly reduced; about 90% replaced with varying types of arrows (including normal).

More fires have been added, leaving only one area very dark: the basement level.
Basement is supposed to be hunters only.

Forest Spirit Melee power dropped to 4 dmg, hp dropped to 20 (default).
Forest Spirit gained night vision.
Hunters get less spawn eggs in their kits.

Vines have been added to some places that could use them
Jump Pads have been added to the big room with circular floor and matching drop from above floor.

Notes:
Phantom Ganon is the tankiest monster in the word, sporting prot 3 leather/chain, 80 hp, and resist 4 (80% DR, resist 3 on vanilla command).

 

[Comp]

Thanks for the map catco. I have purposefully not responded to the map yet because I wanted to see what other staff thought of it first. I appreciate that you took on board the criticism which other people gave you and attempted to make the map better, and it is a definite improvement over the map that you submitted originally.
However I just feel that the overall design of the map just doesn't suite AoD. It is really too large and empty and maze like, and although you've made improvements to them, I still feel like the chests won't work particularly well. Also, I don't think that redstone puzzles work very well, as it just confuses new players to the map. Although maps should be majority focused on game play, some aesthetics are required and the map is a little too plain and bland.
I'm afraid I'm going to have to decline the map though for the reasons I stated above
-Declined