[Suggestion] Removal/Nerf of Strength

[Gameprochampion]

Simply put, with the coming of 1.6, strength has became way to overpowered and is removing the balance in AoD.

Strength 1: 130 Percent Damage Increase
Strength II: 260 Percent Damage increase

To try and put this into some perspective, I'll give you a few items and their damage after having Strength II applied to them. (Note: This doesn't even include critical hits, which already double the damage on a sword)

Regular Diamond Swords do 7 damage ( 3 and a half hearts)
With the edition of Strength II they do 18.2 damage ( about 9.1 hearts a hit)
A Sharp V Diamond Sword does from 6-12 hearts of damage.
Meaning more than 50% percent of the time a regular Diamond sword with Strength II will do more damage than a sharp V diamond sword.

Note: If calculations are incorrect please notify me.

 

[Danni122112]

Thank you. This have been quite a problem for a while, especially on maps like Deadhousegates. While nerfing the potion effect could be a bit hard, and also could do mess with the Tag system, I would suggest that the glowstone were removed from thoose maps, or even better, Strength II would be made impoosible to brew.

This would not affect other pots, and would remove the need to have to go through MANY maps =)

 

[Gameprochampion]

Thank you. This have been quite a problem for a while, especially on maps like Deadhousegates. While nerfing the potion effect could be a bit hard, and also could do mess with the Tag system, I would suggest that the glowstone were removed from thoose maps, or even better, Strength II would be made impoosible to brew.

This would not affect other pots, and would remove the need to have to go through MANY maps =)

I'm sure there are plugins which disallow the usage of potions. I've already found a server which makes it so every time you try to drink a strength Pot it displays a message saying, Strength pots are disabled, and then it's impossible to finish drinking the potion. Either way I've seen talk in Bukkit forums about this, they must've came up with a solution.

 

[Danni122112]

Thank you. This have been quite a problem for a while, especially on maps like Deadhousegates. While nerfing the potion effect could be a bit hard, and also could do mess with the Tag system, I would suggest that the glowstone were removed from thoose maps, or even better, Strength II would be made impoosible to brew.

This would not affect other pots, and would remove the need to have to go through MANY maps =)

I'm sure there are plugins which disallow the usage of potions. I've already found a server which makes it so every time you try to drink a strength Pot it displays a message saying, Strength pots are disabled, and then it's impossible to finish drinking the potion. Either way I've seen talk in Bukkit forums about this, they must've came up with a solution.

;D

 

[Friendy]

Oooor the staff could remove the strength potions and the ingredients to make them from maps, and add the strength potions to the "Good work, here's a <reward>" message at the end of a round?

 

[ConstructionBoy]

I've already found a server which makes it so every time you try to drink a strength Pot it displays a message saying, Strength pots are disabled, and then it's impossible to finish drinking the potion.

Wouldn't that just make players mad when they realize they cannot drink it?

I know removing the potion & ingredients from all the maps would be long and hard, but its the best solution imo.

 

[Gameprochampion]

Oooor the staff could remove the strength potions and the ingredients to make them from maps, and add the strength potions to the "Good work, here's a <reward>" message at the end of a round?

Not a bad idea! But sounds really time consuming. I do like the idea of the Good Work Here's a reward thing.

I've already found a server which makes it so every time you try to drink a strength Pot it displays a message saying, Strength pots are disabled, and then it's impossible to finish drinking the potion.

Wouldn't that just make players mad when they realize they cannot drink it?

I know removing the potion & ingredients from all the maps would be long and hard, but its the best solution imo.

That's also very true since people would go through the time to make strength pots. Maybe we could use that as a temporary fix and then slowly remove the potions from the maps. Because in one go removal of all the strength II potion ingredients would be a pain.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Wow, well if this is the case then I see no reason why not to do something about this. I'm not sure if it's possible to get some kind of plugin which buffs it, but if not I will gladly go around and change them. :)

 

[Gameprochampion]

Baker93 thoughts?

 

[Haysagar]

Simply put, with the coming of 1.6, strength has became way to overpowered and is removing the balance in AoD.

Strength 1: 130 Percent Damage Increase
Strength II: 260 Percent Damage increase

To try and put this into some perspective, I'll give you a few items and their damage after having Strength II applied to them. (Note: This doesn't even include critical hits, which already double the damage on a sword)

Regular Diamond Swords do 7 damage ( 3 and a half hearts)
With the edition of Strength II they do 18.2 damage ( about 9.1 hearts a hit)
A Sharp V Diamond Sword does from 6-12 hearts of damage.
Meaning more than 50% percent of the time a regular Diamond sword with Strength II will do more damage than a sharp V diamond sword.

Note: If calculations are incorrect please notify me.

You would of got your point across better if you used maybe an iron sword as an example. Most of the map's you can't even get a diamond sword. For the strength potion's we are not going to ban them... If we believe something is over powered on a map we will make adjustment's to it.

 

[Friendy]

Simply put, with the coming of 1.6, strength has became way to overpowered and is removing the balance in AoD.

Strength 1: 130 Percent Damage Increase
Strength II: 260 Percent Damage increase

To try and put this into some perspective, I'll give you a few items and their damage after having Strength II applied to them. (Note: This doesn't even include critical hits, which already double the damage on a sword)

Regular Diamond Swords do 7 damage ( 3 and a half hearts)
With the edition of Strength II they do 18.2 damage ( about 9.1 hearts a hit)
A Sharp V Diamond Sword does from 6-12 hearts of damage.
Meaning more than 50% percent of the time a regular Diamond sword with Strength II will do more damage than a sharp V diamond sword.

Note: If calculations are incorrect please notify me.

You would of got your point across better if you used maybe an iron sword as an example. Most of the map's you can't even get a diamond sword. For the strength potion's we are not going to ban them... If we believe something is over powered on a map we will make adjustment's to it.

So then maybe you should go and test out the potions to see why we have complained? Strength is so over-powered now that Danni had Strength 2 with an Iron sword, he 3 hit me and I was in full Iron.

Please, go onto aod when it is popular and ask who agrees that Strength should be removed, I asked myself while Game was online and pretty much everyone wanted it to be removed because you could be running a long and bam you get 2/3 hit without a chance of survival, except imagine half of the survivors with strength potions.

 

[SmoggyWaffles]

Simply put, with the coming of 1.6, strength has became way to overpowered and is removing the balance in AoD.

Strength 1: 130 Percent Damage Increase
Strength II: 260 Percent Damage increase

To try and put this into some perspective, I'll give you a few items and their damage after having Strength II applied to them. (Note: This doesn't even include critical hits, which already double the damage on a sword)

Regular Diamond Swords do 7 damage ( 3 and a half hearts)
With the edition of Strength II they do 18.2 damage ( about 9.1 hearts a hit)
A Sharp V Diamond Sword does from 6-12 hearts of damage.
Meaning more than 50% percent of the time a regular Diamond sword with Strength II will do more damage than a sharp V diamond sword.

Note: If calculations are incorrect please notify me.

You would of got your point across better if you used maybe an iron sword as an example. Most of the map's you can't even get a diamond sword. For the strength potion's we are not going to ban them... If we believe something is over powered on a map we will make adjustment's to it.

So then maybe you should go and test out the potions to see why we have complained? Strength is so over-powered now that Danni had Strength 2 with an Iron sword, he 3 hit me and I was in full Iron.

Please, go onto aod when it is popular and ask who agrees that Strength should be removed, I asked myself while Game was online and pretty much everyone wanted it to be removed because you could be running a long and bam you get 2/3 hit without a chance of survival, except imagine half of the survivors with strength potions.

May I just say something:

the point to AoD IS survival.
If they don't want to die, because of a potion and a sword, hide or run.
I know it is annoying when you are killed by a weapon like this, but it is how the game goes.
Everyone gets the opportunity to have Strength I and II, and one day you may be the one who gets this kind of weapon. Now, if you WERE to have an iron sword, and started going on a killing spree with it, you would be very happy, and probably wouldn't want it removed, then the next round, someone gets it and kills you, and you are back to the original place.

There is no need to remove strength, it was incorporated into MineCraft for no reason. It also isn't impossible to kill someone WITHOUT strength. You may be lucky. Trust me, I would know.

 

[Friendy]

You would of got your point across better if you used maybe an iron sword as an example. Most of the map's you can't even get a diamond sword. For the strength potion's we are not going to ban them... If we believe something is over powered on a map we will make adjustment's to it.

So then maybe you should go and test out the potions to see why we have complained? Strength is so over-powered now that Danni had Strength 2 with an Iron sword, he 3 hit me and I was in full Iron.

Please, go onto aod when it is popular and ask who agrees that Strength should be removed, I asked myself while Game was online and pretty much everyone wanted it to be removed because you could be running a long and bam you get 2/3 hit without a chance of survival, except imagine half of the survivors with strength potions.

May I just say something:

the point to AoD IS survival.
If they don't want to die, because of a potion and a sword, hide or run.
I know it is annoying when you are killed by a weapon like this, but it is how the game goes.
Everyone gets the opportunity to have Strength I and II, and one day you may be the one who gets this kind of weapon. Now, if you WERE to have an iron sword, and started going on a killing spree with it, you would be very happy, and probably wouldn't want it removed, then the next round, someone gets it and kills you, and you are back to the original place.

There is no need to remove strength, it was incorporated into MineCraft for no reason. It also isn't impossible to kill someone WITHOUT strength. You may be lucky. Trust me, I would know.

If the staff went by this, then they shouldn't remove over-powered weapons such as the diamond sword from 747. As you say, the point of aod is to survive, so why should over-powered weapons get removed but not an over-powered potion?

 

[SmoggyWaffles]

So then maybe you should go and test out the potions to see why we have complained? Strength is so over-powered now that Danni had Strength 2 with an Iron sword, he 3 hit me and I was in full Iron.

Please, go onto aod when it is popular and ask who agrees that Strength should be removed, I asked myself while Game was online and pretty much everyone wanted it to be removed because you could be running a long and bam you get 2/3 hit without a chance of survival, except imagine half of the survivors with strength potions.

May I just say something:

the point to AoD IS survival.
If they don't want to die, because of a potion and a sword, hide or run.
I know it is annoying when you are killed by a weapon like this, but it is how the game goes.
Everyone gets the opportunity to have Strength I and II, and one day you may be the one who gets this kind of weapon. Now, if you WERE to have an iron sword, and started going on a killing spree with it, you would be very happy, and probably wouldn't want it removed, then the next round, someone gets it and kills you, and you are back to the original place.

There is no need to remove strength, it was incorporated into MineCraft for no reason. It also isn't impossible to kill someone WITHOUT strength. You may be lucky. Trust me, I would know.

If the staff went by this, then they shouldn't remove over-powered weapons such as the diamond sword from 747. As you say, the point of aod is to survive, so why should over-powered weapons get removed but not an over-powered potion?

I didn't say that I wanted over-powered weapons removed? xD

 

[Danni122112]

Simply put, with the coming of 1.6, strength has became way to overpowered and is removing the balance in AoD.

Strength 1: 130 Percent Damage Increase
Strength II: 260 Percent Damage increase

To try and put this into some perspective, I'll give you a few items and their damage after having Strength II applied to them. (Note: This doesn't even include critical hits, which already double the damage on a sword)

Regular Diamond Swords do 7 damage ( 3 and a half hearts)
With the edition of Strength II they do 18.2 damage ( about 9.1 hearts a hit)
A Sharp V Diamond Sword does from 6-12 hearts of damage.
Meaning more than 50% percent of the time a regular Diamond sword with Strength II will do more damage than a sharp V diamond sword.

Note: If calculations are incorrect please notify me.

You would of got your point across better if you used maybe an iron sword as an example. Most of the map's you can't even get a diamond sword. For the strength potion's we are not going to ban them... If we believe something is over powered on a map we will make adjustment's to it.

So then maybe you should go and test out the potions to see why we have complained? Strength is so over-powered now that Danni had Strength 2 with an Iron sword, he 3 hit me and I was in full Iron.

Please, go onto aod when it is popular and ask who agrees that Strength should be removed, I asked myself while Game was online and pretty much everyone wanted it to be removed because you could be running a long and bam you get 2/3 hit without a chance of survival, except imagine half of the survivors with strength potions.

I belive I would be able to 2-hit you with a normal iron sword, maybe even 1 hit, with this crit hit stuff that I dont really understand. So yes, Strength II is like adding a sharp III or Sharp IV to the weapon, or even more :L

 

[Gameprochampion]

At finals right now once I come home ill respond to everything but someone asked for an iron sword.

Iron sword does 6 damage (3 hearts)

With Strength II = 15.6 aka 7.3 hearts

Critical hits double damage but I am unsure if Minecraft applies this boost before or after the strength effect is added. So you'll be 2 shifting pretty consistently and from what I see you'll 3 shot iron kids even without the addition of critical hits.

Also if Minecraft adds a potion that makes you invincible for 30 seconds will we keep of just on the basis that this is survival?

 

[balloon98]

At finals right now once I come home ill respond to everything but someone asked for an iron sword.

Iron sword does 6 damage (3 hearts)

With Strength II = 15.6 aka 7.3 hearts

Critical hits double damage but I am unsure if Minecraft applies this boost before or after the strength effect is added. So you'll be 2 shifting pretty consistently and from what I see you'll 3 shot iron kids even without the addition of critical hits.

Also if Minecraft adds a potion that makes you invincible for 30 seconds will we keep of just on the basis that this is survival?

Even you should know thats exaggeration so that logic should not be used as an argument.

Thats like saying regen 2 should be banned since it heals you real fast or that poison 2 since it does so much dmg. Now I am not saying that strength 2 shouldnt be dealt with but dont go too out of hand.

 

[Friendy]

At finals right now once I come home ill respond to everything but someone asked for an iron sword.

Iron sword does 6 damage (3 hearts)

With Strength II = 15.6 aka 7.3 hearts

Critical hits double damage but I am unsure if Minecraft applies this boost before or after the strength effect is added. So you'll be 2 shifting pretty consistently and from what I see you'll 3 shot iron kids even without the addition of critical hits.

Also if Minecraft adds a potion that makes you invincible for 30 seconds will we keep of just on the basis that this is survival?

Even you should know thats exaggeration so that logic should not be used as an argument.

Thats like saying regen 2 should be banned since it heals you real fast or that poison 2 since it does so much dmg. Now I am not saying that strength 2 shouldnt be dealt with but dont go too out of hand.

Except regen 2 would be a problem if it was being handed out in quite a few hunter/survivor kits or is easily accessible through maps and lasts for 2 minutes.

 

[Gameprochampion]

You would of got your point across better if you used maybe an iron sword as an example. Most of the map's you can't even get a diamond sword..

Enjoy!
Iron sword does 6 damage (3 hearts)

With Strength II = 15.6 aka 7.3 hearts

Most of the map's you can't even get a diamond sword. For the strength potion's we are not going to ban them... If we believe something is over powered on a map we will make adjustment's to it.

I didn't realize the operators were allowed to give opinions on behalf of those who will be the ones actually making a decision. A controller has already called them OP and offered to go through and change everything manually.

May I just say something:

the point to AoD IS survival.
If they don't want to die, because of a potion and a sword, hide or run.

This was more directed towards those poor old zombies rather than the humans. Hiding/Running as a zombie means failed round meaning no brains for you. Basically a dead round for a zombie, because he'll get no enjoyment nor will he get any form of compensation for his wasted time ( brains ).

I know it is annoying when you are killed by a weapon like this, but it is how the game goes.

I seriously doubt when Listings09 was creating AoD he had any intention for Humans to become walking tanks which 2-3 shot all zombies in their path. He probably was aiming at something more balanced, but sadly Mojang's defenition of balance has been messed up since 1.2.5.

Everyone gets the opportunity to have Strength I and II, and one day you may be the one who gets this kind of weapon.

Scenario 1: Mojang adds a potion which gives you a possibility to get invincibility for 3 minutes, it's a 1/20 chance. Would you keep it in the game since everyone can get it? Or would you remove it because you realize the devastating effects it's having on the gameplay of AoD.

Now, if you WERE to have an iron sword, and started going on a killing spree with it, you would be very happy, and probably wouldn't want it removed, then the next round, someone gets it and kills you, and you are back to the original place.

I've gotten quite a few 15+ killstreaks using Strength II, and I for one found it really boring. No challenge was presented, and it was just overloads of brains coming into my /money. Removed all purpose from the game and turned it into a one sided attempt to kill the tank.

There is no need to remove strength, it was incorporated into MineCraft for no reason.

I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand what you're trying to say here. It was added as a beginning potion effect that increased your output damage. It then in 1.6 was nerfed into a one sided kill machine. Thus it was incorporated into Minecraft for a reason.

It also isn't impossible to kill someone WITHOUT strength. You may be lucky. Trust me, I would know.

I realize that it's not impossible to kill someone without strength? I realize it's also not impossible to kill someone with strength? Not sure the point you're trying to get across.

May I just say something:

the point to AoD IS survival.
If they don't want to die, because of a potion and a sword, hide or run.
I know it is annoying when you are killed by a weapon like this, but it is how the game goes.
Everyone gets the opportunity to have Strength I and II, and one day you may be the one who gets this kind of weapon. Now, if you WERE to have an iron sword, and started going on a killing spree with it, you would be very happy, and probably wouldn't want it removed, then the next round, someone gets it and kills you, and you are back to the original place.

There is no need to remove strength, it was incorporated into MineCraft for no reason. It also isn't impossible to kill someone WITHOUT strength. You may be lucky. Trust me, I would know.

If the staff went by this, then they shouldn't remove over-powered weapons such as the diamond sword from 747. As you say, the point of aod is to survive, so why should over-powered weapons get removed but not an over-powered potion?

I didn't say that I wanted over-powered weapons removed? xD

He's saying that Strength II is similar to an Over powered weapon. They both have the same effect. But by your point of view we wouldn't have removed the over powered weapons either. The point being AoD has been known to remove things which hinder enjoyment of the playerbase and are overpowered in nature. (A recent example being towers)

At finals right now once I come home ill respond to everything but someone asked for an iron sword.

Iron sword does 6 damage (3 hearts)

With Strength II = 15.6 aka 7.3 hearts

Critical hits double damage but I am unsure if Minecraft applies this boost before or after the strength effect is added. So you'll be 2 shifting pretty consistently and from what I see you'll 3 shot iron kids even without the addition of critical hits.

Also if Minecraft adds a potion that makes you invincible for 30 seconds will we keep of just on the basis that this is survival?

Even you should know thats exaggeration so that logic should not be used as an argument.

That's actually incorrect. A pretty common form of argument is Reductio ad Absurdum (reduction to absurdity), it's used all the time and I'm using it in this argument.
An example would be:
Father: Why do you go to the movies so often?
Daughter: All of my friends do!
Father: If all your friends cut their arms off, would you do so as well?

It's pretty proper logic, and can be used in any form of argument from public speaking to debate such as this.

Thats like saying regen 2 should be banned since it heals you real fast or that poison 2 since it does so much dmg. Now I am not saying that strength 2 shouldnt be dealt with but dont go too out of hand.

The example you've given gives no bearing to what I'm currently saying. You're making the inference that I'm asking for a ban because it is better than it's previous counterpart. That's incorrect. I'm asking for a ban/nerf of Strength II because it is a hindrance to gameplay.

 

[Baker93]

Jammy001 said:

Most of the map's you can't even get a diamond sword. For the strength potion's we are not going to ban them... If we believe something is over powered on a map we will make adjustment's to it.​

I didn't realize the operators were allowed to give opinions on behalf of those who will be the ones actually making a decision. A controller has already called them OP and offered to go through and change everything manually.

I talked to Jammy personally about this issue and this is MY opinion on the matter which Jammy relayed in this thread. Ergo, he is allowed to give the opinion of those making the decisions, please don't make assumptions based on incomplete information, especially just because he disagrees with you.

Myself and the staff team are planning on going through all the maps and adjusting what we think are OP, if this means the complete removal of strength potions, so be it. In the meantime could people please provide any information on OP items in particular maps in the map flaw report thread to make our jobs a lot easier, thanks .

 

[Jivvi]

I don't really think strength is op at all on its own: some Survivors brew, some run for weapons, others for locations. SOmething you also forget is that Hunters can brew too. A common way I deal with str II runners is to brew my own. Also, it adds some challenge on some maps. For example, I played a Deadhouse Gates round, and we all actually had a lot of fun trying to dig into, open and explode the brewing pit to eventually kill the tanks within. I find that str II runners are only a problem when every Hunter goes it solo (which isn't fun anyway).
If the Hunters can work as a team and be smart about it, it's quite easy to take down an artificial juggernaut

 

[SmoggyWaffles]

So many Smoggy quotes. :c