Operator Applications and Post ratings.

Lee_scar

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The operator application forums should no longer have post ratings be acceptable, much like the ban appeals section.

Why take it away?

The ban appeals are taken as a serious matter in which Blocktopia operates in regards to its servers and user-base and have had their user ratings privilege denied.
The operator application sections however continue to have the ratings in full allowance even though it too is just as serious if not more to the structure and operation of the community.

While it can be argued that yes, having the ratings can reinforce the staffs decision based on popular opinion of how well received the application and the applicant are.
This however leads to favoritism and 'clique' behavior that can influence the supposed impartial decisions left to the current staff.

The staff themselves should not need to -agree-like-winner-disagree- and so on with an applicants apply such as they are already going to voice this opinion in an adequate response.

Taking a step back to the players that rate the post. While it does reinforce a positive outlook and maybe even remotely an amount of respect that could be seen by the players for the applicant, it should not matter how well liked an applicant is rather the skill and determination to appropriately carry out the duty of the staff position.

Where-as if the ratings are needed to show cross-server staff support the applications should then be open to all staff to voice opinion on the applicant as well.

The ratings are also detrimental or could very well pose so to the self-esteem of those applicants.
In example:
Dragosh98 and Jolteon42 went head to head for the last spot on the A & T applications.

While you may note that Dragosh has had more experience in that server, this is not about the select history of the users, but the rating response that each received. As you look at danni122112 and nogtrogs responses in both threads were highly similar the rating difference is disparaging.

Not that I am precisely saying that Jolteons self-esteem was shattered or hurt. Though in for-thought a young child, teen, or even adult; no matter how much maturity they display can and possibly will be emotionally affected by the combined outcome of the ratings they receive and see others receive and their applications acceptance or denial.

The matter remains that within the ban forum and as it should be in the operator forums that favoritism and opinion outside of the parties involved should not be a part.
 

Love

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I don't think the Ratings feature should be taken away for Rank Applications. For ban appeals it should stay the way it is. However, how influential is it really to rate an Application something like "Winner" or "Like" or the sort? And going off what SirComp said in S_swimmer's Application, why is it bad to rate something "Optimistic"? Sure, maybe sometimes these ratings can be taken as sarcastic and yes these users should have a talking to. But the ratings can also be used to show a form of support; For me getting a rating on my Application shows that people support me and are hoping the best for me. That's how I see the ratings for most Applications.

And as a Staff member I rarely see how many people rated the post "Like" or "Optimistic" due to the fact that yes, these people are going to have people who support them. Yes, they're going to rate their Applications. Hell, I even rate Applications; It's because I like seeing people put forth the effort to be a staff member. I don't just rate them because they're someone I enjoy talking to or like being around; I put ratings in for things such as how well their application looks. If someone I know really well put forth an Application and half-assed it, I wouldn't rate it. If they put forth the effort to make a worth-while Application, I'd "Like" it.

TL;DR - I think the Rating system for Applications, for all users, should be kept, and in no way in my mind does it exhibit "clique" behaviour.
 

MiyakoWolf

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I don't understand how ratings effect anything on the decision.. Its based on the staffs opinion on whether they think the person is ready and capable or not.

I personally am not very confident of myself, and when I applied for staff and received positive ratings on my application, it made me feel more confident. I felt like I was supported, and i'm pretty sure that there are others who have felt the same.

I understand your point but I honestly don't feel like this community is like that. This is just my opinion though.
 

Danni122112

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I don't understand how ratings effect anything on the decision.. Its based on the staffs opinion on whether they think the person is ready and capable or not.

I personally am not very confident of myself, and when I applied for staff and received positive ratings on my application, it made me feel more confident. I felt like I was supported, and i'm pretty sure that there are others who have felt the same.

I understand your point but I honestly don't feel like this community is like that. This is just my opinion though.
The problem was rather negative ratings, dislikes etc.

Imagine when you are posting the application, as you say, not all that confident, and you get dislikes on your application. How would that make you feel? This did happen, and was the main reasons why ratings were removed fromt that section.

Ratings are just a fun thing to have on the forums, they are not needed in the staff section, as they are not "needed" anywhere, and I can see them doing just as much harm as good in that specific section.
 
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EggNog

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I personally agree with lee and danni. Why do players have to have to voice a opinion in these sorts of applications? I've seen it turn into big messes when a possibly unliked player applies and receives several dislikes. This is not appropriate speaking as a staff member if you're going to dislike a application don't do it its dickish we need to encourage players not discourage them.

Now I understand the whole supporting the applicant but in my opinion the pluses do not out way the negatives. I feel applications should be professional like ban appeals if I were to apply somewhere and got 4 dislikes I would likely be discouraged enough not to apply for a good long while even if the feedback was mostly positive.

I do understand both sides to this but when it comes down to it there is No need to have players or staff members not related to the application stating their opinion through ratings even if it is positive. Thats all I got.
 
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I personally am not very confident of myself, and when I applied for staff and received positive ratings on my application, it made me feel more confident. I felt like I was supported, and i'm pretty sure that there are others who have felt the same.
That's a fair point.

But as Lee said, what about the less known players, who don't score as many positive ratings on their applications. Looking in the app forum and seeing everyone else with double, treble the ratings you have can kinda be disheartening.

I am in support of removing them!
 

Araidian

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Wait wait wait. I don't mean to sound like a hardass... Well I do really.

First, here's my view on the whole situation. Can this be an issue? Yes, it can.
However, is it currently an issue? No and I doubt it ever will be in this community.

I say this for multiple reasons:
-Numero Uno, There isn't a whole group of people actively disliking apps. It's literally a sparse amount of people IF any! Really, the only time I've seen a whole bunch of dislikes on a post was literally because it was a joke application.

-Numero Dos, You are trying to protect people more then they need to be; it's like holding their gosh darn hand. Why are you going to get rid of ratings that have ALWAYS been on this forum just to make someone feel a bit safer? Sure, it sounds harsh how I put it, but you are literally getting rid of something just to baby someone.

-Chachacha Three, You are snuffing the opinions of others. Do opinions really belong on an app that has nothing to do with players? I can agree with you and say; no, players really don't need to have a say in apps. More likely than not though, the matter of opinions isn't a problem. If anything, they really boost your self-esteem.
Ill qoute what Miyako said:

I personally am not very confident of myself, and when I applied for staff and received positive ratings on my application, it made me feel more confident. I felt like I was supported, and i'm pretty sure that there are others who have felt the same.
I was the same gosh darn way when I first applied. Literally all of my friends, and even some people I hadn't known well had liked my post! It really made me feel good to know people supported me, and by taking away their opinions, what exactly do you want to accomplish? To ruin that boost of confidence? If anything ,you pretty much make conditions worse if not better by taking away those likes and winner ratings. Sure, it might seem a bit silly to some to get worked up about them, but it helps.

Arguement to chachacha Three, Ill address the people who dislike an app. You can see who dislikes your post. That much, EVERYONE knows. So what does that mean? That means two things!

-Either you have a history with the person that dislikes your app and you shouldn't really care what they think.
-Its some random person you don't know and you, again, shouldn't really care what they think.

Now the scenario of people disliking an app isn't common whatsoever, but unless that person has a genuine reason for not wanting to have you as staff on that server, they are probably just being jerkbags, and should be ignored.

This isn't an issue. In the past, it hasn't been an issue. I understand your intentions, but if there aren't people literally having their hearts broken over this, why try to change it?
 

Naoh

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ersonally I have always found the ratings as more of a "pat on the back" or a motivational gesture.

Definition of motivation (n)

  • mo·ti·va·tion
  • [ mṑtə váysh'n ]
  1. giving of reason to act: the act of giving somebody a reason or incentive to do something
  2. enthusiasm: a feeling of enthusiasm, interest, or commitment that makes somebody want to do something, or something that causes such a feeling
  3. reason: a reason for doing something or behaving in a particular way
synonyms: Incentive · Inspiration · Drive · Enthusiasm · Spur
 

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First, here's my view on the whole situation. Can this be an issue? Yes, it can.
However, is it currently an issue? No and I doubt it ever will be in this community.
Though most of your points are true this is where you wrong it has been an issue that is why DoD removed ratings from our applications. Again I understand the motivation thing and honestly I can say the likes helped me with some of my unease on applications but I still don't feel applications are a place where players have any place in because, well they don't. Applications should be handled professionally and ratings take away from that.
 

Lee_scar

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Its about a legitimate feeling of appropriate professionalism.
A person doesn't get a goddamn 'like' or 'optimistic' stamped on their job application from the co-workers or boss or customers they happened to be friends with. They get a real talk with actual meaning in why or why not they deserve the position.
All be it the forums are not the real the job of an operator isn't to be just a persons friend and a lovely little pop idol.

Like it or not but it is in fact a job.
One needn't been given a stipend of cash for it to be a job.
As much buttering up as people have been fed about 'its not about work its about playing and enjoying the server'
Well that might hold true about a meer operator once you start getting higher and deeper into the echelon then you realize its not simply about playing a game anymore.

An application shouldn't be taken as a mockery of a twitterbook redblur mainstream post to be subjected to the masses 'thumbs up bro' or 'u WinRAR mahn'.

If your lacking in confidence in any profession then you are truly not ready, and should steel yourself until you can be completely confident to where a rejection actually surprises you.


Motivation is the driving force that causes the flux from desire to will in life?
The Motivation should be to play the server, progress its prosperity and enforce the rules in a friendly, calm and concise manner to draw more people into the community. Not to simply have a damn purple name and play popularity pole.
 
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Jivvi

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favoritism and 'clique' behavior
this is such a new thing i never would have guessed that this happens in this community
That's a fair point.

But as Lee said, what about the less known players, who don't score as many positive ratings on their applications. Looking in the app forum and seeing everyone else with double, treble the ratings you have can kinda be disheartening.

I am in support of removing them!
http://blocktopia.net/forum/threads/shandes-operator-application.16018/
 

RyanDodd

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Personally don't feel like this is an issue. As has already been stated, it is a way of showing support for the applicant. No, that doesn't happen in real jobs, but who said that Blocktopia had to be just like real life? If someone wants to harass the applicant, there are numerous other ways of doing so. On another note, if someone gets their feelings hurt or becomes dramatic because they didn't get as many likes as another person who was applying, we should probably step back and consider whether or not they are fit to be staff. I don't want to sound rude, but this is my honest opinion.

Removing ratings will accomplish nothing.

Edit: I do see how it can be disheartening if someone is supported more than you, but it should also make you want to work your hardest to prove that you are just as worthy of the rank.
 
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Sephhh

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In rare cases like the one Lee showed above, ratings could manipulate decisions and have an effect on the applicant and the application itself.

I'm kind of confused what the issue is and on the arguments of some here, but I just kind of dropped by to say that sometimes people rate an application just because they like a person, regardless of how the app was made (except if it's clearly disheartening). I really liked how TNT had the applications before, all private and everything was based on the app itself and the staff's opinions.

You can see in DoD's Decided Applications the difference of the ratings from some applications. I don't know why I'm pointing this out, since I'm massively confused and ripped on everything, though you could get your own implications from these, so yeah.
 

Lee_scar

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No-one is coming off rude from what is seen in due honesty, its refreshing to come forward with direct opinion and see it in exchange.
A forum is to openly discuss and work together in a lovely setting towards what is best for the community, no?
It is very pleasing to see the opinions, both for and against.
 

Jivvi

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this is such a new thing i never would have guessed that this happens in this community

http://blocktopia.net/forum/threads/shandes-operator-application.16018/
To clarify, since this has apparently confused some, one can see from Shande's application that it is quite a popular motion for him to reassume a position in the staff. Despite being called out as not meeting the intended criteria, and counting on the ever-present RoF-Staff clique to succeed, only a few staff have actually addressed or acted upon this. Not surprise that they are possibly some of the few that do not belong to the 'elite' RoF staff clique. The majority of the staff have been significantly lenient in issues such as the brevity of the application, which was addressed by a VetOp, but after a brief response the negative vote was reversed.

tl;dr cliques cliques cliques
 
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