regarding ban appeals

Enderfive

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yeah uh i don't really have much to say other than

a) i thought ban appeals were opened to the public again with the assumption that this:


wouldn't happen

b) if a majority vote was reached in 14 minutes can we really be sure that every vote was given its due consideration

don't get me wrong, i do think there absolutely is a strong case against unbanning jub, but if that's so, why meme your way through it rather than actually present that case?
 

☃Dr. Bob

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Yeah. I've been confused about this thing too. I've been wondering for a long time about what they even did that was so mean until today.

Every time I've asked, people just told me Jub did mean things. I was never provided context for one reason or another, as people didn't really know or remember what happened.

I'm not saying that I have a right to this information to know what happened, but what I'm saying is that it's kind of sad to see someone disappear for a long time (years?) and only just see a glimpse into the situation as the person appears, then to see the person disappear forever again.

Was I asking the wrong people or should I just not have asked at all?
 

snowma

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Does.. no one remember his last appeal when he did a complete 360 and told Nillbug to commit suicide so yes. I'm frankly over the moon his appeal was shut down in nano seconds and I'll happily post and like that because he's frankly a bipolar tosspot.

Also I'm sure he isn't going to be too offended by the response to his appeal, it's not like he isn't aware he's in the shit.

As a side note no one can present their case in an appeal unless they're staff right. I reread the announcement making ban appeals public and I don't see diddly squat about posting statuses?
 
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☃Dr. Bob

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Does.. no one remember his last appeal
Yes.
I missed everything about it. And apparently a lot of us have.
I just wanna know things like this, so I guess I need to be more attentive in the moment it happens. But thanks for telling me this, because I seriously never knew any details until today.
 

snowma

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Yes.
I missed everything about it. And apparently a lot of us have.
I just wanna know things like this, so I guess I need to be more attentive in the moment it happens. But thanks for telling me this, because I seriously never knew any details until today.
You'll get a lot of strong opinions on both sides and I'm biased but I believe his appeals do speak for themselves..
 

☃Dr. Bob

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I just want strong answers as to what even happened, because I haven't even been able to form a proper opinion, myself.

And frankly, with the mystery of "he did mean things so he got banned" floating around, I got scared thinking about what I do or what others do might be just as bad because I had previously had very little context on the matter.

But hey, now I know a little.
 

SirComputer

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Alright - I can apologise for all the meming from admins, and the joke-esque nature of the ban appeal wording, and the gif at the end. Despite there being a large grey area with being a relaxed community and staffing properly, it was not professional enough. The 14 minutes figure was a way of showing how definite the staff team were with their decisions - if the voting admins saw the poll in about 5 minutes, they would have spent up to 9 minutes considering his ban anyway, and during those minutes and the minutes after as I wrote my response, pretty obvious evidence was presented in admin chat. However, among all that, there was a strong case presented to not unban Jub. Jub has ban evaded during his ban length, which in the new policy would extend his ban length by a year. If we counted each one of his evades as a one-year extension, he would be banned from appealing for a decade based on Discord alone, not counting numerous forum and TeamSpeak evades. The only reason he was able to appeal was that his evades were after the introduction of the policy. The evidence of his Discord ban evades were shown on his ban appeal. Another example of his ban evading was shown on his previous appeal last year, when he asked an admin to livestream their suicide after his appeal was denied. Telling people to go kill themselves is a fairly good reason to keep someone banned, I think. Yet another example of his evasion led to another user being banned, when he used les_morts_vivants' account to evade on the forums. That alone would be a strong reason to not let him back for a very long time. Evidence that it was him can be seen in the link provided. Ban evasion was also mentioned in this previous appeal of his. Ban evasion alone is a very large indicator that the user will just take being unbanned for granted, and isn't really trying or values being unbanned.



More evidence to deny Jub's unban is shown with the logs sent to Hex, as mentioned in the appeal response. To clear everything up, here are the logs in mention, which have now been deleted by Jub:




I think these logs speak for themselves. This is completely unacceptable outside the community, never mind in it. Other things I don't have logs for right now that I was reminded about by admins include tormenting people in the community, something mentioned in his previous appeal, and posting private/personal logs on public accounts. If I wanted to dig up more, I could.

I hope this clarified why this decision was made.
 

Psycho

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Didn't give much thought to how SirC touted that the Admin's general consensus of Jub was voted upon within a few minutes -- I'm certain that it took past Admins a few days to figure stuff out.

I don't know what the Admins had in mind, but I would say for certain that Jub's constant ban evasion could be one major reason why he should still be banned. Apart from the stories told about his past history in this Community, I would think that being banned for quite some time would increase his chances of being unbanned. Three years, give or take a few days where he has banned evaded, should be ample enough time for a person to improve their maturity -- and for others that may have been affected by said person to forgive and forget so to speak.

I do agree that the responses from other people posted in the screenshot aren't warranted and still believe that ban appeals should have been private for such reasons.

Edit: Also, I think that activities (reddit) done beyond this Community's scope should never be introduced as reasons for a ban.
 

snowma

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Didn't give much thought to how SirC touted that the Admin's general consensus of Jub was voted upon within a few minutes -- I'm certain that it took past Admins a few days to figure stuff out.

I don't know what the Admins had in mind, but I would say for certain that Jub's constant ban evasion could be one major reason why he should still be banned. Apart from the stories told about his past history in this Community, I would think that being banned for quite some time would increase his chances of being unbanned. Three years, give or take a few days where he has banned evaded, should be ample enough time for a person to improve their maturity -- and for others that may have been affected by said person to forgive and forget so to speak.

I do agree that the responses from other people posted in the screenshot aren't warranted and still believe that ban appeals should have been private for such reasons.

Edit: Also, I think that activities (reddit) done beyond this Community's scope should never be introduced as reasons for a ban.
It's like you've had a brain transplant. You made a thread discouraging toxic people and now you're voting them back in? What happened??

"Give or take a few days where he's ban evaded" er, no. Surely it doesn't work like that. If you can't take the hit and respect the fact you've been banned then why should you be let back in?
 
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Psycho

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More evidence to deny Jub's unban is shown with the logs sent to Hex, as mentioned in the appeal response. To clear everything up, here are the logs in mention, which have now been deleted by Jub:




I think these logs speak for themselves. This is completely unacceptable outside the community, never mind in it. Other things I don't have logs for right now that I was reminded about by admins include tormenting people in the community, something mentioned in his previous appeal, and posting private/personal logs on public accounts. If I wanted to dig up more, I could.

I hope this clarified why this decision was made.
Do you have any previous accounts as to who initiated this conversation or why it happened in the first place? Was it was a way out west type of accusation or did Hex and Jub have any history at all?
 

Hex

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Do you have any previous accounts as to who initiated this conversation or why it happened in the first place? Was it was a way out west type of accusation or did Hex and Jub have any history at all?
Completely out of west, only interaction ive had with him before was when he was staff on buildbox AGES back.

For referenece, chaotic spread this rumour about me. He repeats it to a lot of people, but the account that sent it to me is jubs (he even points to the account in his appeal)

Hes deleted all of his messages now, so mine are only there.
 

Aqua

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Tbh I agree with ender because the inconsistency of the Administration here is killing me.

However I'd also like to stress that I believe "meme your way through it" is the correct approach because...


We've been over this with the fucking safespace censoring shit from like a year ago so I'm glad people still haven't gotten their shit together.

Put it like this: Jub is a toxic piece of shit, who cares if he hasn't "broken any rules recently" (not saying he hasn't just hypothetically), if people don't want him around then don't unban him simple as.

Same way if people constantly break the rules but are funny and people actually appreciate their existence and personality in the community (so the opposite of me lmao) then they shouldn't be punished.

it's a gaming community, it's all about fun, we wanna maximise the fun, rules aren't fun... no more rules... make me CA, tyvm.

-Love Aqua

(I'd like to stress this is a semi-shitpost as I haven't actually read anything other than ender's post kthnxbai)
 

Enderfive

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The fact such a big deal is being made over someone who does this for attention means we all lose.
...but i'm not doing this because of jub? i don't give a shit about him, he can stay banned and i'm sure he doesn't feel offended, or if he does, idrc

what i am saying is that basically laughing at someone getting their ban appeal rejected (regardless of who it is) goes against the principles i have seen the administration lay out, and that the decisions to unban someone or not probably require some actual consideration, not just a lightning fast decision that is more likely than not heavily influenced by whatever personal biases may be at play

basically while i agree that leaving him banned was probably the right decision, then i feel like there were some problems that were present regarding the whole thing and i feel like someone should direct attention to them because that way the possibility that the same problems will arise with someone else's ban appeal in the future, someone people might actually care about, falls
 
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snowma

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...but i'm not doing this because of jub? i don't give a shit about him, he can stay banned and i'm sure he doesn't feel offended, or if he does, idrc

what i am saying is that basically laughing at someone getting their ban appeal rejected (regardless of who it is) goes against the principles i have seen the administration lay out, and that the decisions to unban someone or not probably require some actual consideration, not just a lightning fast decision that is more likely than not heavily influenced by whatever personal biases may be at play

basically while i agree that leaving him banned was probably the right decision, then i feel like there were some problems that were present regarding the whole thing and i feel like someone should direct attention to them because that way the possibility that the same problems won't arise with someone else's ban appeal in the future, someone people might actually care about, falls
I wont take the piss out of most genuine appeals though (feel free to prove me wrong).

You've got to admit it gets a bit amusing when someone appeals who has a habit of constantly appealing and then stirs the shit/ban evades.

I get what you're saying. It's not exactly mature laughing at ANYONES appeal but I'd only really see it being a problem at genuine ones.. and I didnt feel like Jubs was overly genuine given he pulled the same stunt last time then went megarage mode.
 
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JtTorso

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Tbh I agree with ender because the inconsistency of the Administration here is killing me.

However I'd also like to stress that I believe "meme your way through it" is the correct approach because...


We've been over this with the fucking safespace censoring shit from like a year ago so I'm glad people still haven't gotten their shit together.

Put it like this: Jub is a toxic piece of shit, who cares if he hasn't "broken any rules recently" (not saying he hasn't just hypothetically), if people don't want him around then don't unban him simple as.

Same way if people constantly break the rules but are funny and people actually appreciate their existence and personality in the community (so the opposite of me lmao) then they shouldn't be punished.

it's a gaming community, it's all about fun, we wanna maximise the fun, rules aren't fun... no more rules... make me CA, tyvm.

-Love Aqua

(I'd like to stress this is a semi-shitpost as I haven't actually read anything other than ender's post kthnxbai)
I agree with this, and if I had been staffing with that mindset at the time the "shitposting" arguments were going on, I would be far more open to letting people goof around. Jub conducted himself in way a that passed the line of slightly mean shitposts, into what I'd call harassment on multiple occasions, I do agree this community should be about having fun and not taking things too seriously, but Jub being here changed that for a lot of people and I think the staff made the right decision, considering how many times he's said he'd change on previous applications, and well, here we are again.

As for how the application was handled, I think Ender has a point, on principle applications should be handled in the same in attitude. This circumstance is undoubtedly bias, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find an active staff member that Jub hasn't insulted or belittled at one point or another. If you continue to feel that staff aren't handling applications in accordance to their own words, absolutely bring it up, this one though... I don't think it's a good look for staff, but I won't complain.
 

Enderfive

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I wont take the piss out of most genuine appeals though (feel free to prove me wrong).

You've got to admit it gets a bit amusing when someone appeals who has a habit of constantly appealing and then stirs the shit/ban evades.

I get what you're saying. It's not exactly mature laughing at ANYONES appeal but I'd only really see it being a problem at genuine ones.. and I didnt feel like Jubs was overly genuine given he pulled the same stunt last time then went megarage mode.
I was referring to jub though.
fair enough
 
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Catcocomics

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Check the first and last posts of the most topical threads in the Discussion section and report back with your findings.
I mean, I could rag on about how jub made a super cancer fanfic about The Legend of Zelda just to piss me off back two and a half years ago, or ramble on about morals and how we should be better than this or something, but I kind of think enough's been said and it seems to just come down to, should we fight fire with fire, or should we fight fire with water?
 
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