PvE Base Raiding

[TechnoViking]

[BCOLOR=transparent]Like some people might know by now we (Bonfire) got raided last night, luckily HKCaper was online and able to help out really fast and sort out the situation. Turned out that all the stuff that got raided from us will be refunded but this situation did cause me to realize how easy it is to just walk into someone’s town and empty the place.[/BCOLOR]

[BCOLOR=transparent]After we got raided we looked around a little and within no-time we had found 5 bases that where unlocked and able to be looted. We have not looted any of these bases since we don't really like this mentality.[/BCOLOR]

[BCOLOR=transparent]We did however completely empty VTS their base (legally within the current format of rules) for more personal reasons. We even were able to raid some food since they stole all ours.[/BCOLOR]

[BCOLOR=transparent]For the people that do not know how the system works, you are allowed to literally empty all of someones chests if someone would forget to block it off even if you accidentally forget to lock your storage just once.[/BCOLOR]

[BCOLOR=transparent]There are several ways to easily get into someones base, we’d like to point out some of the possible ways this server could get quite toxic really fast:[/BCOLOR]

• [BCOLOR=transparent][BCOLOR=transparent]Camping outside someones base with or without potion/nightcloak invisibility so you can follow the owner into the base whenever he opens a door[/BCOLOR][/BCOLOR]

• [BCOLOR=transparent][BCOLOR=transparent]Using the TP of nightcloaks to teleport through non solid blocks like slabs etc[/BCOLOR][/BCOLOR]

• [BCOLOR=transparent][BCOLOR=transparent]Block lagging through walls etc. which will not be detectable[/BCOLOR][/BCOLOR]

• [BCOLOR=transparent][BCOLOR=transparent]Using water flows to get over walls (could be done by placing them and then afterwards removing them)[/BCOLOR][/BCOLOR]

• [BCOLOR=transparent][BCOLOR=transparent]Ender Pearls and chorus fruits (luckily they are disabled on this server though)[/BCOLOR][/BCOLOR]

• [BCOLOR=transparent][BCOLOR=transparent]Using horses to jump over walls that you would otherwise not be able to jump over (while on this topic you could also try trapping peoples horses that try raiding your base by making the walls to high to jump over from the inside, are you allowed to keep the horse of whoever tried raiding you this way?)[/BCOLOR][/BCOLOR]

• [BCOLOR=transparent][BCOLOR=transparent]Using rabbit potions to get around obstacles or walls[/BCOLOR][/BCOLOR]

[BCOLOR=transparent]With this in mind I personally would like to suggest to implement some sort of chest protection system. Maybe you could implement some chest locking system and make it a rule that you are not allowed to place locked chests outside of your main storage or inside the pvp zone. Or you could make it so that once a town is founded they can have some claimed chunks where they can store their loot. (an admin could claim these chunks for an town for example)[/BCOLOR]

[BCOLOR=transparent]I hope there are others like us that dislike the fact that you could get raided by someone at any time, even in the PvE zone. Currently we are scared of even opening our door to our storage since someone could just slip in together with us and literally take everything that we unlock. This is not a fun way of playing on this server especially since half of our town isn’t into PvP at all and the other half just hates the fact that we cant fight back when someone gets into our base (you are allowed to loot someones base even when you are asked to leave as long as you don't take too long like 30 or 40 min max)[/BCOLOR]

[BCOLOR=transparent]Once again I hope there are others that would like to see this changed, I added a poll to this thread for anyone interested in tossing in their two cents.[/BCOLOR]

[BCOLOR=transparent]Sorry for this rant but I hope it gets the point across, never been to good at writing but I hope you guys can bear my grammar.[/BCOLOR]

[BCOLOR=transparent]TL;DR[/BCOLOR]
[BCOLOR=transparent]Pls no base raiding in PvE, I like my servers decent and christian and my anus is hurting quite badly from literally getting everything I worked for the last few days stolen.[/BCOLOR]

[BCOLOR=transparent]-PS[/BCOLOR]
[BCOLOR=transparent]Sorry to all VTS members that had nothing to do with this, I don’t know the inner workings of VTS but if you’re just a stranger that joined their town you didn’t deserve getting raided and we apologise for that.[/BCOLOR]

 

[Velzerat]

just block your chests 4head

 

[Araidian]

Raiding makes sense in a PvP area, but it does not make sense in a PvE area.
In one area you can actually fight off people scoping out your base. In the other, you can really only watch or try to manually block them off.

 

[TechnoViking]

just block your chests 4head

We did block them, the guys that raided our base did it illegally, its just currently quite a painful process since we got everything stolen and have waited for around 12 hours before getting our tools again (which we are still waiting for but its okay I can imagine the admins are quite busy)

 

[Jolterino]

We're definitely open to changing the rules, and will take action depending on the results of the poll.

 

[TechnoViking]

We're definitely open to changing the rules, and will take action depending on the results of the poll.

Thanks for taking a look man, I talked with HKCaper and he wasn't able to give me a conclusive answer since he doesn't represent the full admin team I imagine. But really glad its being taken serious no matter the outcome since this is the first server I've come across that really has its shit together without the stupid /home /repair /feed or cash-shop BS.

 

[Kagamiiragi]

Having rules means those need to be respected and enforced. This gives the mods quite a bit of extra work and it also means you need to trust each other. When drama like this happens relations go sour and you get this animosity between clans and that's not fun for anyone. In open servers like this I'd really rather not have to rely on trust and just want to have fun without constantly monitoring who is around the base to see if I have to lock everything up.

 

[lizthehedgehog]

I find PVE a little more fun with raiding; gives off a little more action without being PVP dedicated. That's not to say people who don't block stuff off are not annoying. If you have issues with someone not blocking something up mention it to them and take actions accordingly. It's one of the main reasons why some have a general storage area and then their own storage in their house or somewhere.

 

[Rune]

just block your chests 4head

He's right ynow, if you block off your chests then there should be no issue. SMP's have historically always allowed stealing if you have your chest uncovered etc and I see no reason for it to change. If it's impossible to raid PvE areas then you're basically limiting only 1/3 of the map to be able to be raidable which is silly. There are way more people hiding in PvE than PvP and there should be ways for PvP or PvE players to raid one another. PvE members can easily come and raid PvP areas but if you introduced the rules then you can't do vice-versa.

Here's ways to fix your issues:

• [BCOLOR=#ffcc00]Camping outside someones base with or without potion/nightcloak invisibility so you can follow the owner into the base whenever he opens a door[/BCOLOR]

Make an airlock. Nightcloak only works in certain light levels and you will see the particles when you're in the airlock. Easy fix.

• [BCOLOR=#ffcc00]Using the TP of nightcloaks to teleport through non solid blocks like slabs etc[/BCOLOR]

This is glitching, which is against the rules

• [BCOLOR=#ffcc00]Block lagging through walls etc. which will not be detectable[/BCOLOR]

This is glitching, which is against the rules. Also blocklagging only really works with 1-1.5 high blocks not 10.

• [BCOLOR=#ffcc00]Using water flows to get over walls (could be done by placing them and then afterwards removing them)[/BCOLOR]

This can be detected and is against the rules as you are building on someones claimed land.

• [BCOLOR=#ffcc00]Ender Pearls and chorus fruits (luckily they are disabled on this server though)[/BCOLOR]

No point replying to this one

• [BCOLOR=#ffcc00]Using horses to jump over walls that you would otherwise not be able to jump over (while on this topic you could also try trapping peoples horses that try raiding your base by making the walls to high to jump over from the inside, are you allowed to keep the horse of whoever tried raiding you this way?)[/BCOLOR]

Make your walls higher, and you're building on peoples property if raiding factions try to make the wall higher. Surely you would want your walls to actually function as walls?

• [BCOLOR=#ffcc00]Using rabbit potions to get around obstacles or walls[/BCOLOR]

Make your wall higher.

 

[Wolfadius]

Imagine thinking that you should have to block your chest on a PvE server. "I should have to inconvenience myself because people might try to steal from me when I cannot do anything against it" madness.

 

[Kagamiiragi]

He's right ynow, if you block off your chests then there should be no issue. SMP's have historically always allowed stealing if you have your chest uncovered etc and I see no reason for it to change. If it's impossible to raid PvE areas then you're basically limiting only 1/3 of the map to be able to be raidable which is silly. There are way more people hiding in PvE than PvP and there should be ways for PvP or PvE players to raid one another. PvE members can easily come and raid PvP areas but if you introduced the rules then you can't do vice-versa.

Here's ways to fix your issues:

• [BCOLOR=#ffcc00]Camping outside someones base with or without potion/nightcloak invisibility so you can follow the owner into the base whenever he opens a door[/BCOLOR]

Make an airlock. Nightcloak only works in certain light levels and you will see the particles when you're in the airlock. Easy fix.

• [BCOLOR=#ffcc00]Using the TP of nightcloaks to teleport through non solid blocks like slabs etc[/BCOLOR]

This is glitching, which is against the rules

• [BCOLOR=#ffcc00]Block lagging through walls etc. which will not be detectable[/BCOLOR]

This is glitching, which is against the rules. Also blocklagging only really works with 1-1.5 high blocks not 10.

• [BCOLOR=#ffcc00]Using water flows to get over walls (could be done by placing them and then afterwards removing them)[/BCOLOR]

This can be detected and is against the rules as you are building on someones claimed land.

• [BCOLOR=#ffcc00]Ender Pearls and chorus fruits (luckily they are disabled on this server though)[/BCOLOR]

No point replying to this one

• [BCOLOR=#ffcc00]Using horses to jump over walls that you would otherwise not be able to jump over (while on this topic you could also try trapping peoples horses that try raiding your base by making the walls to high to jump over from the inside, are you allowed to keep the horse of whoever tried raiding you this way?)[/BCOLOR]

Make your walls higher, and you're building on peoples property if raiding factions try to make the wall higher. Surely you would want your walls to actually function as walls?

• [BCOLOR=#ffcc00]Using rabbit potions to get around obstacles or walls[/BCOLOR]

Make your wall higher.

This is all assuming that people follow the rules, which evidently is not always the case. The lure of lootable chests means people try underhanded tactics to get your stuff. The big issue is that you just cannot trust people, it's already proven by having illigal stealing in the first week of this server's existance. The big problem is that if somebody dislikes you, you have to be on the lookout for them, because if you get illigally raided you saddle the mods with a bunch of work again. Personally I don't see this all being worth it, just install chest locking and it'll never be an issue again you know.

 

[Mr_Matt]

Even with all this in mind, theres another big problem which is once you are in the base, and you are trapped, two things are legal: wait for them to come online and ask them to let you out, or 2. get out yourself. the rule is, any trap that doesnt kill you needs to have a way to get out for a player, and that way the base is a sort of holding pin. following nr. 2, NOW there is a HOLE in that base. I did create a hole, but from the inside. Is it legal? yes. is it provable? no. Another hassle flinged to the mods.

That said, I am a huge fan of raiding. I thrive in the PvP zone, and love to kill poor fools that dare cross my path. I even wish all chests were unlockable in the Pvp, and the further you get into the pvp zone, the better chance for loot. I even wish for a minimaps in towns that let you see green dots for players in the pvp zone so you can fight them. I wish the PvE zone was about 1/3 - 1/4th of the map, so you can have a higher zone. I wish there was no ways to portal out of the pvp zone, so it makes the risk for reward even more beautiful.

I understand all your concerns for pvp will be dead and raiding will then be meaningless, but then, cnsider having around 1-2 nightcloaks being invisible with you 24/7. Are you going to be protected ? And if so, Im sorry but you cant retaliate if I win the vision battle.

 

[Sour_Lemon]

It should be allowed, you just need to block your chests. That way it makes things more fun/interesting and adds another layer to the server. It has always been this way, even back in JTE.

Breaking the rules by using a water bucket or using another method will always be wrong. Taking stuff should be allowed if done legally, not through illegal methods.

 

[Dess]

Literally just put a block over your chest wtf?

 

[Wolfadius]

It should be allowed, you just need to block your chests. That way it makes things more fun/interesting and adds another layer to the server. It has always been this way, even back in JTE.

Breaking the rules by using a water bucket or using another method will always be wrong. Taking stuff should be allowed if done legally, not through illegal methods.

Literally just put a block over your chest wtf?

Man I sure do love putting a gross looking block on my chests for pve servers, go to the PVP zone if you wanna raid and steal PVE is Player versus Environment I should not have to worry that other players are going to be a-holes

 

[Kagamiiragi]

Literally just put a block over your chest wtf?

1) If you've actually read the other replies you'd know the greater issue.
2) There are enough ways to cheese this system, it adds unneccasary hassle.
3) If someone has it out for you it makes it really unfun because they'll just be preying for an oppertunity, meaning building becomes a big drag because you have to lock/unlock chests everytime.
4) It looks hella ugly

 

[Mr_Matt]

Also, while I understand that rules are unchanging and other, a rule such as 2.4 “stay classy” means bollocks to me in a raiding area. Raiding is meant to be a profit for the winning player, and a loss for the other. It’s a textbook definition of parasitic behavior. a profit in raiding sense can also mean that you now have less items to work your way up to be powerfull enough to defeat me again. If nothing changes, give me some definition of what staying classy means to you, Mr Yes-Voters.

 

[Catcocomics]

This is something that kind of demands a compromise between the PvE and PvP basis of the server community.
I personally think that Raiding should be considered a form of PvP, as it is equatable to pillaging/sabotaging other players, but then there is of course the issue of people in PvE having their base in PvE to protect it and then exploiting its protection as they rampage through PvP bases.
I know we do our best to not divide the community, but the last few SMPs died early because of a serious clashing between the PvE and PvP players constantly being forced together, and I think we have a bit of a unique opportunity to put a stop to that this time.

PvP bases remain mostly unchanged (to the point that you can still block your chests so you aren't forced into constant dedication to protect your stuff), but PvE bases and the players who reside there are to remain strictly PvE

This means that, while PvE bases will perhaps be able to just lock their chests and not have to worry about raiders, are not themselves allowed to raid anyone, not even PvP bases.

And I get that not everyone in PvE wants this protection, so bases that do wish for this protection will probably have to submit a simple forum application or otherwise contact staff (to avoid exploitation), raiding PvE bases will start out that way and not need any special action (and if they're happy with not being able to kill intruding raiders, so be it).

TL;DR
it seems to me like there's a bit of a three-way split with the SMP playerbase, and so I think we should act accordingly so that those who genuinely wish to live one way (PvP, PvE w/raid, and PvE sans raid) may do so, but in a simple system that aims to eliminate exploitation.

 

[Boulvier1]

It should be allowed, you just need to block your chests.

Literally just put a block over your chest wtf?

Genius

 

[Rune]

Man I sure do love putting a gross looking block on my chests for pve servers, go to the PVP zone if you wanna raid and steal PVE is Player versus Environment I should not have to worry that other players are going to be a-holes

Man, I love using any type of opaque block to block off my chests /s! PvP players shouldn't worry about PvE players coming into PvP to raid and then run all the way back into their PvE hole where we can't counter. Seriously, I see no issue here; except for convenience and honestly making rules up so PvE players have more protection is frankly absurd. Just block off your chest, there's no issue and if you can't then it's your fault not the raiding player.

Also, while I understand that rules are unchanging and other, a rule such as 2.4 “stay classy” means bollocks to me in a raiding area. Raiding is meant to be a profit for the winning player, and a loss for the other. It’s a textbook definition of parasitic behavior. a profit in raiding sense can also mean that you now have less items to work your way up to be powerfull enough to defeat me again. If nothing changes, give me some definition of what staying classy means to you, Mr Yes-Voters.

Redistribution of wealth, ezpz. Seriously though, here's an analogy. Imagine you're walking through the woods, and the common advice which everyone says you should do is to wear trousers instead of shorts to prevent ticks; and you go ahead and wear shorts because trousers look fugly; who's fault is it? The person who's being selfish about their looks or the tick who wants an easy meal. Don't make the meal easy, make it hard by blocking off the bloody chest, it's such an easy habit to get into and requires no installation of plugins or mods.

1) If you've actually read the other replies you'd know the greater issue.
2) There are enough ways to cheese this system, it adds unneccasary hassle.
3) If someone has it out for you it makes it really unfun because they'll just be preying for an oppertunity, meaning building becomes a big drag because you have to lock/unlock chests everytime.
4) It looks hella ugly

1) There isn't a greater issue, it's just people who don't want to block off their chests and are paranoid that someone can steal from them
2) If you saw me break it down, there really isn't a lot of ways to 'cheese' the system. Staff are able to blockcheck pretty much anything and if you think someones gotten into your chest by breaking a block then staff can check pretty easily. They can also check who accessed chests as far as I know.
3) Well, bad luck and get into the habit of it. It barely takes anytime to break a block and then replace it after you're done.
4) Use a different block

Personally I don't see this all being worth it, just install chest locking and it'll never be an issue again you know.

I feel like the best solution for ALL parties is to allow users to have the tools to check who have accessed chests or see who have broken blocks. Therefore, instead of installing extra plugins and making one side happy because PvE want to me more sheltered than they already are then this is probably the best solution.

 

[Boulvier1]

Pvp in a pvp area, pve in pve area simple. the fact people have to put blocks over there belongings so others cant steal it is bull beyond belief and childish.

 

[Wolfadius]

Man, I love using any type of opaque block to block off my chests /s! PvP players shouldn't worry about PvE players coming into PvP to raid and then run all the way back into their PvE hole where we can't counter. Seriously, I see no issue here; except for convenience and honestly making rules up so PvE players have more protection is frankly absurd. Just block off your chest, there's no issue and if you can't then it's your fault not the raiding player.


Redistribution of wealth, ezpz. Seriously though, here's an analogy. Imagine you're walking through the woods, and the common advice which everyone says you should do is to wear trousers instead of shorts to prevent ticks; and you go ahead and wear shorts because trousers look fugly; who's fault is it? The person who's being selfish about their looks or the tick who wants an easy meal. Don't make the meal easy, make it hard by blocking off the bloody chest, it's such an easy habit to get into and requires no installation of plugins or mods.


1) There isn't a greater issue, it's just people who don't want to block off their chests and are paranoid that someone can steal from them
2) If you saw me break it down, there really isn't a lot of ways to 'cheese' the system. Staff are able to blockcheck pretty much anything and if you think someones gotten into your chest by breaking a block then staff can check pretty easily. They can also check who accessed chests as far as I know.
3) Well, bad luck and get into the habit of it. It barely takes anytime to break a block and then replace it after you're done.
4) Use a different block


I feel like the best solution for ALL parties is to allow users to have the tools to check who have accessed chests or see who have broken blocks. Therefore, instead of installing extra plugins and making one side happy because PvE want to me more sheltered than they already are then this is probably the best solution.

PvE is player versus environment not Player versus Players being dicks. If I wanted to deal with raiding/raid myself I would play a fully pvp server. I chose to play this for the class mechanics and some building with buds. I'm fine with the nether being pvp that's cool it just reminds me of the wilderness from like RuneScape

 

[fantome]

honestly, I don't get why you are so resilient to just put a slab or glass down to block the chest

 

[Catcocomics]

honestly, I don't get why you are so resilient to just put a slab or glass down to block the chest

last I checked neither of those block chests (unless you double slab, but glass is still not a "solid" block)
And even then, blocking chests with glass is either a waste of glass or a waste of a silk touch pick (unless you're using a sticky piston contraption of which seems pointless.)

 

[Joel]

Here is another point, what if someone just camps out in your base for the entire day, making it a hassle for people who are just trying to build or have fun, or even just enter their house without someone rushing in and being annoying for no reason. You can't call it a "raid" if the people in the town have no way to "defeat" the invader. Its more like "We can't do anything to you so just run around and be a dick until we open our chests." You don't just walk into a "Raid" in any RPG and wave at the enemies as you grab the loot and walk out. I understand that you may enjoy PvP but some of us aren't here for that, hence why we stay in the PvE side. We aren't going to raid the PvP side bases because we don't have that mentality or want to. We just wanna play a nice relaxing game with friends and not have to "bar the gates" every time someone walks in. It just gets really annoying. As well as the "put a block over it mentality." its basically just putting a band-aid over a gun shot. Its just an apparent fix that favors people who enjoy PvP over PvE. It makes people who like harassing others have more fun while the ones who are trying to enjoy themselves with friends have to just watch and be annoyed because they can not do anything about it or fight back.

Overall PvE should be treated how it is in any other MMORPG, no player can harass or fight another unless they are in an area or tagged for it. That's why we have the two separate tags (PvE ,PvP) in the first place.