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Implemented Mob Distribution Change

Discussion in 'Decided Pile' started by Catcocomics, Oct 25, 2017.

  1. Catcocomics

    Catcocomics Member

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    Describe your suggestion:
    I've noticed that some mobs seem to spawn at rounds that maybe make them a little op, regardless of map with the only exception being either a map that specifically focuses on balancing around that one mob (something we would have if Guardians didn't get removed), or on Shooting Gallery, where mob damage basically doesn't matter.

    For reference, here is the list of mobs and the earliest wave they all spawn on (exact copy from the map creation format thread)
    Zombie: Wave 1
    Husk: Wave 1
    Spider: Wave 2
    Creeper: Wave 4
    Slime: Wave 5
    Magma Cube: Wave 6
    Silverfish: Wave 7
    Endermite: Wave 8
    Vindicator: Wave 9
    Cave Spider: Wave 10
    Skeleton: Wave 10
    Stray: Wave 10
    Wither Skeleton: Wave 10
    Zombie Pigman: Wave 12
    Witch: Wave 12
    Vex: Wave 12
    Ghast: Wave 12
    Enderman: Wave 13 (Note: Also spawns at wave 10 as mini bosses sometimes)
    Evoker: Wave 14
    Blaze: Wave 15
    Mind you, there are plenty of mobs I do think spawn at their appropriate waves, but that doesn't stop many of them providing somewhat unfair difficulty spikes to laggy/casual players, or even seasoned veterans.

    The following is a list of mobs the damage they do on Normal difficulty (the difficulty mob uses), and any special perks or anything they get:
    Mob Type | HP | Armor | Damage | Effect (if relevant) | Size (Rounded, LWH)| Speed (relative) | Gold (current)
    Zombie | 20 | 2 | 3 | obsolete | 1x1x2 | Slow | 1
    Baby Zombie |20 | 2 | 3 | obsolete | 1x1x1 | SONIC | 2
    Spider | 16 | 0 | 2 | - | 2x2x1 | Normal | 2
    Creeper | 20 | 0 | 0-49* |[lingering applied] | 1x1x2 | Slow | 2
    Slime | 16 | 0 | 4 | - | 2x2x2 | - (low-jump) | 2
    Magma Cube | 16 | 12 | 6 | - | 2x2x2 | - (high-jump) | 2
    Silverfish | 8 | 0 | 1 | - | 0.4x0.4x0.3 | Normal | 1?
    Endermite | 8 | 0 | 2 | - | 0.4x0.4x0.3 | Normal | 1?
    Vindicator | 24 | 0 | 13* | - | 1x1x2 | Fast | 2
    Cave Spider | 12 | 0 | 2 | Poison I - 0:07 |1x1x1 | Normal | 3?
    Skeleton | 20 | 0 | 1-4 | - | 1x1x2 | Normal - SONIC | 3
    Stray | 20 | 0 | 1-4 | Slowness I - 0:30 | 1x1x2 | Normal - SONIC | 3
    Wither Skeleton | 20 | 0 | 7 | Wither I - 0:10 | 1x1x3 | Normal | 4?
    Zombie Pigman | 20 | 2 | 8 | - | 1x1x2 | Normal | 5
    Witch | 26 | 0 | - | Various | 1x1x2 | Slow | 3?
    Vex | 14 | 0 | 9 | - | 1x1x0.4 | Fast NO-CLIP | 3
    Ghast | 10 | 0 | 6, 0-17* | Fire | 4x4x4 | Slow Flying | 3?
    Enderman | 40 | 0 | 7 | - | 1x1x3 | SONIC Teleport| 8
    Evoker | 24 | 0 | 6 | Summon | 1x1x2 | Stationary | 3?
    Blaze | 20 | 0 | 5, 6 | Fire | 1x1x1 | Stationary Flying | 5
    Guardian | 30 | 0 | 6, 2 | - | 1x1x1 | Fish | -
    Elder Guardian | 80 | 0 | 8, 2 | Mining Fatigue | 2x2x2 | Fish | -

    * - has been nerfed, but it might make things more interesting if restored, provided appropriate changes are made.
    Red Damage is confirmed 100% to have extra armor piercing.
    Speed types Are ordered in difficulty by color: Pathetic, Easy, Standard, Mild, SPICY, WTF M8!
    I won't be giving specific placement request for mobs, beyond moving Silverfish and Spiders to wave 1 and moving Endermites to wave 2 (due to how little damage they do and how quickly they are dispatched).

    For general consensus of where mobs are placed, I have two recommendations:

    A. put higher damage/hp/armor mobs and mobs with more effects/speed rating at later rounds (perhaps even having some that spawn after wave 20?)

    B. put mobs in at different waves based on their grouping and placement in standard Minecraft survival:
    Weak Overworld mobs, Strong Overworld mobs, Nether Mobs, End Mobs, Dark Oak Mansion, and finally Guardians (assuming guardians ever return).


    I believe that better balancing which mobs spawn on what wave is a good step to vastly improving AoD's player retention and overall popularity by making most of the maps far better paced in difficulty and letting players be properly equipped for what they must face.

    Done correctly, this will make all the maps much easier to survive
    (if that wither slayer achievement being made easy really bothers you that much, you can move the wither fight wave, though in all honesty, there isn't much difficulty in actually killing it once it appears if the map isn't already flooded with over powered trash mobs.
    TBH, I'd just lower it by one or two tiers, even with how mob is balanced now.)

    Alternatively
    Because some maps are still balanced for this old system, and because I actually have some mob map ideas that would kind of require this, and also because some form of this has been asked for multiple times by multiple people, we could make all the above be simply a default setting for maps and ultimately give map makers the freedom to choose which mobs spawn at what rounds on their individual maps.

    I understand that this will likely take much effort, but with this, players can actually make maps that are balanced towards themselves, as opposed to trying to balance shops and terrain to hard-set mob spawning criteria.

    Are you willing to work with our staff team to implement this suggestion? (It's okay to say no)
    Contact me via Steam or PM me, and I'll happily work with you guys to decide where exactly all the mobs ought to go, but as it stands now, I am only capable of sharing knowledge, experience, and ideas.


    P.S. let me know if any of this is confusing.
    I started typing this at about 11:30 PM - 12 AM, and have just finished at 2:04 AM.
     
  2. ComputerGuy_

    ComputerGuy_ AoD Dev and Admin!

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    Alright sorry its taken a while to get to this (yeah a long time), but I briefly explained this to you in game a few weeks back. I delayed replying until we knew what exactly we were changing, and also for me to implement the changes (often things come up which are unexpected when doing this).

    I think when discussing it, we all agreed we should change up the waves in which mobs spawned, and so here is the new list:
    Zombie: 1
    Husk: 1
    Silverfish: 2
    Endermite: 8
    Spider: 2
    Slime: 5
    Creeper: 6
    Magma Cube: 7
    Ghast: 8
    Vindicator: 9
    Cave Spider: 10
    Skeleton: 10
    Wither Skeleton: 10
    Stray: 12
    Zombie Pigman: 12
    Witch: 12
    Vex: 13
    Enderman: 13
    Evoker: 14
    Blaze: 15
    Skeleton Horse: 10
    Enderman Boss: 10
    Wither: 20

    Aside from this, I finally did get around to giving map makers the ability to change how mobs spawn in the map, as follows:
    • Mobs can now be set to spawn at specific waves and
    • Can set to have different gold drop rates
    • This applies for boss mobs too - they can be disabled or changed wave
    As well as this:
    • All mobs now share the gold dropped between players (including bosses!)
    • Increased spawn invulnerability time
    • Revive prices are slightly cheaper, and now can be used anywhere in your inventory

    I wrote this in the last meeting recap, if you didn't see.

    I'll update the map info thread now, so it might be done by the time you see this.

    We didn't think option B was really right for the server, so we chose not to do it, as it would be bad for balancing.

    If there's anything you think would work better, or have any other opinions on this, feel free to reply
     
  3. Catcocomics

    Catcocomics Member

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    Endermites are basically carbon copies of silverfish, and as you said yourself on the server, both are easier than zombie (apart from the small size).
    Endermites and Silvrfish should be wave one with zombies, which would actually be good for making earlier rounds faster (because zombies take 6 hits to kill with the shovel normally, whereas the bugs will be 3 hits at most).

    I'm also thinking that the first 10 waves should be basic overworld mobs; the above three at the beginning, and then adding spiders and possibly slimes and creepers around wave 5.
    Early teens can be good for more advanced overworld mobs like skeletons, witches and cave spiders, later teens can start introducing nether mobs, and then after wave 20 will be pretty fair for woodland mansion mobs (because all of them are literally meant for post game).
    This will help map making a lot smoother for me (I hope), since I'll be balancing all the economy now.
    May need to do something a little more advanced for late arrivals, but only time will tell...

    I've not actually been thinking about this thread much as of late, and have little else to add, but these changes are all pretty good regardless.
     

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