Market Crash [Game Over]

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JKangaroo

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JKangaroo When you claimed security announcer on whatever day, didn't you say you were giving up your role as cop? But you've been investigating people? Or is it just like, someone can post a bulletin, but they can't do their action? And I thought the watcher had died, and you guys had a cop, a watcher, and a group ability that was a block. But you don't seem to have blocked anyone last night but you watched notty? I have literally zero understanding of your group as a whole ;-;
Here, let me pull up my roleclaim.
Page 15 for reference:
I'll highlight the important bits.
There's multiple ways I could go about this post, and have written different versions, but I decided to be more blunt than try to keep spinning things, since again I think the game should be ending soon.

*sigh*
[BCOLOR=#ffff00]I'm the Cop [/BCOLOR](security guard with cop abilities, theres no "role-name" Edit for clarification: I've said this before but my role is "security guard" and I don't consider that really to be a "role-name" like Employee sorta is, or Experienced Terrorist, or etc, which is what I mean by no role-name per se.").
[BCOLOR=#00ff00]Being the security announcer was supposed to be my cover story[/BCOLOR] so the cop didn't again die super early like every game and keep our group anonymous.
I was trying really hard there to town-tell guys. C'mon.

[BCOLOR=#00ff00]Our group is composed of 3 people: Wim, myself, and Mars.[/BCOLOR]
[Edit for further clarification: I am a cop. Wim is a tracker. Mars was the vigilante.]
[BCOLOR=#ffff00]Every night we also have a group action: either send a day message, watch someone, or roleblock someone.[/BCOLOR]
I took both the Watcher action (which we did Night 1) and included it as a "ghost player" and used the day message as my cover ability so that there was a "cop" still out there that no one knew about so I wouldn't get killed myself so I could still give out anonymous investigations.
I'm still the cop, I investigated Vatu last night; he came out innocent, and I'm dumb because I didn't understand why he was blue when he died today until Ltin said blue was this game's town colour, but that doesn't matter now and that investigation was useless since he's dead. ;-;

Unfortunately it seems my decently made cover-story has been blown to smithereens so hopefully the doctor can keep me safe tonight.
Hopefully that clears some things up.

As to your other question:
It was from me. In DoB chat. Saying that I can't send a message by my own role. What's shady about it?
I mean, I think when I said that it was somewhat self-explanatory. :p
It didn't sound like it came from you. It sounded like it was either Ltin writing that, or was from the BoD, which it was as you have claimed.
But it's shady because its something we werent expecting. We were expecting you to have a night message, but it seems that it didn't happen and have to go through the BoD for said message to be released. We still need to wait to try and confirm your role. You could be lying, and only telling us bits of it, or it could be the truth. We just dont know.

On top of that, you have been somewhat lying to us, haven't you?:
Paraphrase of my message: "So, there's a problem with the plan from the day. I don't have the ability to send an announcement. I received nothing for my role. As in, I was not given a role. Typically I've been given my role at the start of each night, but I got nothing, and had to verify it wasn't a mistake. He wouldn't tell me why (naturally), but I think it's because I claimed amnesiac during the day. I don't know if this is permanent, but for the night at least, I'm just a vanilla townie." And then I proposed the message you saw in the night.
Recalling yesterday, we basically tried to continue the mass-claim from the previous day (when I came out as the cop, Notty the doc, etc) and we ended up lynching hipman as he claimed Employee without much proof (unlike Caff who did have confirmation from you, Tim, iirc) and ended up being Mafia. You were the only one who hadn't claimed at that point, and so we let you have a day to wait.
The next day you came out as the Amnesiac.
Well, here goes. I'm the Amnesiac. My ability changes every night, based on what I claim during the day.
And unless I'm reading to much into this then you basically did not claim your actual role yesterday; instead it would be a fake role which ended up affecting your role into a "non-action" that night, if your story is to be believed.
Of course, this is all under the thought that I can't in good conscious think Ltin would use the actual name of the role (Amnesiac, if that is the actual rolename) to essentially just not give you an action that night. It would be strange and awkward with how your claimed role ability is played out.

And if this is indeed how your role goes around then I don't know why you needed/wanted to wait a day to reveal yourself when we were all claiming.
D2 (yesterday) was my Blueberry claim. The goal was to make it as absolutely f'cking ridiculous as possible so no one would say anything (Seeing a pattern? All of my claims were made as jokes so people wouldn't pay any mind to future claims, laugh at them and forget and ignore them). The ability I was going for: You and target player cannot be targeted. The ability I got: You or target player cannot be targeted. I was between using it on myself, JK, or Wimali. I would've liked to use it on myself and one of the others, but that wasn't allowed (aw shucks) so I just used it on myself.
Especially since you ended up just using it to turn untargettable for the night. Waiting a day to reveal yourself then simply decide to have your ability turn you untargettable just doesn't make sense in my eyes. Yeah sure you wanted to be ridiculous with the role name but the town basically agreed to just let you wait a day since we thought you would be telling us the truth.

Additionally how come Amnesiac was your role thing that night, when on Day 0 you were able to claim, then go with another one later? (Stock Broker -> Ended up claiming stock reporter which was what you said later). The only thing I could see would be you telling Ltin that wasn't the one you were going with since you claim you can somewhat decide how your nights ability will turn out; how come that couldn't be the same with the Amnesiac claim, and then your second claim with the announcer.

There's just so much that feels confusing, and uncertain, and things behind the scenes with limitations and rules we just can't confirm that it feels like a jumbled mess.
Ontop of that, I believe it was either Ooglie or someone else who said it before, but compared to every other role, Amnesiac doesn't really fit the theming as all the other roles.
-You expect there to be security at a stock exchange.
-You expect there to be employees, investors, officials, directors of a company/the exchange itself, etc.
-Since the mafia are terrorists, you expect roles similar to exist as well.
-You expect to see a doctor/health staff, although admittedly I don't ever recall Notty really telling us her "role-name" which if I'm right/wrong hopefully that is fixed
...
Your's is an outlier.
And yes, while we have seen outliers be true in past games, I'm not sure how certain I can really accept it this time around.

I want to say I would either be voting you right here and now; You or Ooglie honestly since I think out of the 6 remaining, I feel certain myself, Notty, and Wim are on the same side, with Oog, Caff, and Tim to be potential enemies, and with Caff somewhat proving herself twice now that leaves you two.

But at the same time going through the thread again, I can't help but feel like maybe my investigation of you really was true and i'm not naive?
Largely due to Ltin's death post featuring hipman:
hipman500 (Experienced Terrorist)has been lynched.
[BCOLOR=#7f7f7f]Spoiler: Experienced Terrorist[/BCOLOR]​
[BCOLOR=#ffff00]Godfather [/BCOLOR]w/ one-shot immunity transfer
See that? He had a godfather ability. As far as I know, the only "cop" roles we've had this game have been myself, and if you're telling the truth (or lying but half-truthing/whatever you get the picture) with your changing night abilities potentially being investigative.
So does that mean I'm not naive? Or was one of Mar's vigilante kills potentially also an investigative role that was town-sided and he was modified?
And if I'm not modified and the investigation of you turned out innocent does that mean you are innocent? Or does that mean you have a godfather-esq modifier?...
...

...Modifiers give me a headache.

But yeah, I just don't see who else could really be bad at this point.

Worst(or is it best?) case scenario is that your third-party with an agenda/victory condition that doesn't include winning with the town.
And since a lot of the time third-parties end up counting against the town winning (and third-parties are the only ones who have had these big interesting/differing from the norm roles in recency...
...I don't really see much reason not to vote to lynch you off.
And if we're wrong we just continue down the list of suspicious/unconfirmed people and use our night abilities(e.g. tracking, etc) to help shorten it because it's basically only a matter of time until the town pieces together who's who.
 

Timdood3

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I'm not completely I understand all of your post, and I'm in a rush.

Recalling yesterday, we basically tried to continue the mass-claim from the previous day (when I came out as the cop, Notty the doc, etc) and we ended up lynching hipman as he claimed Employee without much proof (unlike Caff who did have confirmation from you, Tim, iirc) and ended up being Mafia. You were the only one who hadn't claimed at that point, and so we let you have a day to wait.
The next day you came out as the Amnesiac.
And unless I'm reading to much into this then you basically did not claim your actual role yesterday; instead it would be a fake role which ended up affecting your role into a "non-action" that night, if your story is to be believed.
I didn't claim that day in case the mafia decided that I was someone to kill, being an investigated townie, because once I claim, it becomes pretty obvious what my ability for the night is, which in that case was being untargetable. So if the mafia knew they couldn't kill me, they obviously would change their target. But if they intended to target me and didn't know, they wouldn't try to kill me.

And the second part (bolded) I really don't understand. You're saying that claiming amnesiac to be my role (while my role is actually something with a similar name but different ability) or something. I don't know. I'm out of time, I'll be on later to try to make sense of this.
 

Nottykitten

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I mean it could still be caff, or oog
And the second part (bolded) I really don't understand. You're saying that claiming amnesiac to be my role (while my role is actually something with a similar name but different ability) or something. I don't know. I'm out of time, I'll be on later to try to make sense of this.
Pretty sure he means, that you asked ltin for a different role than you claimed.

I believe you just lied aboutit all together. You had one job last night to provebyour claim and you didn't do it so I see no choice but to lynch you. Since according to the plan Oog was to be blocked(instead they watched me) you probs did not attack to make Oog look suspicious. Anyways youre our best lynch option and probabily the SK.

Vote Timdood3
 

Timdood3

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But it's shady because its something we werent expecting. We were expecting you to have a night message, but it seems that it didn't happen and have to go through the BoD for said message to be released.
It's not like everyone but me was expecting a night message from me, I was expecting to have it too. And when I didn't get it, I did the best I could: I let everyone know what happened. Shady would have been if I had somehow convinced the DoB chat to send a message saying "Hey, It's Tim, this is my announcement!" But that's not what happened.
Additionally how come Amnesiac was your role thing that night, when on Day 0 you were able to claim, then go with another one later? (Stock Broker -> Ended up claiming stock reporter which was what you said later). The only thing I could see would be you telling Ltin that wasn't the one you were going with since you claim you can somewhat decide how your nights ability will turn out; how come that couldn't be the same with the Amnesiac claim, and then your second claim with the announcer.
Amnesiac was not a nightly role. Amnesiac is my actual role. I did not claim Amnesiac to get an ability from my role; Amnesiac is my role. I was given no role last night. On Day Zero, I claimed the first role (Broker) to tease Ltin with something that obviously wouldn't be allowed. And I made sure he knew it was a joke. Then I claimed the second role and made sure Ltin knew that that's the claim that my ability would be derived from. There's no parallel with that and the Amnesiac/Announcer claims yesterday. It was clear that Amnesiac was (is) my actual role, and that Announcer was the claim my ability would have been derived from. What I was saying with the "I think I didn't get a role because I claimed Amnesiac" stuff was that because I've claimed, my role no longer works. [That is the theory.] I hope this cleared it up, but I'm still not sure what you're trying to say.

Ontop of that, I believe it was either Ooglie or someone else who said it before, but compared to every other role, Amnesiac doesn't really fit the theming as all the other roles.
-You expect there to be security at a stock exchange.
-You expect there to be employees, investors, officials, directors of a company/the exchange itself, etc.
-Since the mafia are terrorists, you expect roles similar to exist as well.
-You expect to see a doctor/health staff, although admittedly I don't ever recall Notty really telling us her "role-name" which if I'm right/wrong hopefully that is fixed
...
Your's is an outlier.
And yes, while we have seen outliers be true in past games, I'm not sure how certain I can really accept it this time around.
Ok, who else would you expect to see at a stock exchange? Because I can't think of any. I can't prove how or that my role fits thematically, but that doesn't change the fact that it's my role.
And if I'm not modified and the investigation of you turned out innocent does that mean you are innocent? Or does that mean you have a godfather-esq modifier?...
It would (and does) mean I'm innocent. Think of it this way: There is no more mafia. There remains a single third party. Imagine that said third party has a godfather-esque modifier. Now imagine that said third party doesn't. Not much has changed,huh? It's not like it's particularly useful to a third party, at the very least not as useful as to a mafia. So ask yourself: From a game balance perspective, why would the host make a third party arbitrarily more powerful than it already is or needs to be? I hope that all made sense, if it didn't, it boils down to the previous sentence.
Pretty sure he means, that you asked ltin for a different role than you claimed.
But I didn't?
You had one job last night to prove your claim and you didn't do it
And I already explained that I couldn't do it. Because I didn't get a role. That's very much not my fault. The only theory that makes sense to me is that because I claimed Amnesiac (my actual role), I can no longer receive my claimed abilities, making me just a vanilla townie.
Since according to the plan Oog was to be blocked(instead they watched me)
Was that the plan? I thought the plan was we lynch ooglie, but that plan changed to not lynch Ooglie. I recall nothing about him being blocked. Might just be the dead space of the game between now and then, but I don't remember anything like that.
 

Mooglie

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ok SO to me
with dess ded there are now 4 uncertains (me, notty, tim, caff)
i know i'm inno (not gonna use JK's investigation as evidence since it's all naive!)
notty is p r o b a b l y inno since they supposedly saved wimali 2 nights ago (when dess targetted but there was only 1 death (inf))
caff's shown that they sent a message to tim and then a message to me last night
then there's tim

i mean
the no-lyncher investigation report was revealed to be on a dead guy (so no confirmation from an alive target)
the no targetting thing was on himself
the roleblocking thing was on me (even tho its pretty obvious i have no action!!!!!!)
and now the announcer thing supposedly didn't work??

+ the role is so out of place and the rules to it are so confusing and not specific at all it all seems too WEIRD
and then when inf got suspicious in BoD of tim he ended up dead

IDK but honestly
vote Timdood3
 

CaffeinatedKitty

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ok yeah it really doesn't fit??? like I just thought for 5 seconds and I came up with another role name that could fit the theme. Based on what we know so far I doubt that anyone has a role that doesn't suit it. plus not being able to confirm ability is definitely a bit fishy, and it looks a bit like you're scrambling to save yourself.

vote timdood3
 

Ltin

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VOTECOUNT I VOTED BY MAIL BUT I DONT GET A STICKER BECAUSE APPARENTLY I AM NOT IMPORTANT (or worthy of free Culvers custard)
Timdood3 - 3 (Nottykitten, Ooglie101, Caffeinatedkitty)
with 6 players it takes 4 to lynch and 3 to no lynch.
 

JKangaroo

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And the second part (bolded) I really don't understand. You're saying that claiming amnesiac to be my role (while my role is actually something with a similar name but different ability) or something. I don't know. I'm out of time, I'll be on later to try to make sense of this.
Pretty sure he means, that you asked ltin for a different role than you claimed.
Sorta?
Not really but sorta. On the right track I guess. I think Notty's sentence leans more toward the "why didn't you ask for announcer instead?" argument.
Anyways,
I think you kinda understood what I meant when you were explaining stuff here:
Amnesiac was not a nightly role. Amnesiac is my actual role. I did not claim Amnesiac to get an ability from my role; Amnesiac is my role. I was given no role last night. On Day Zero, I claimed the first role (Broker) to tease Ltin with something that obviously wouldn't be allowed. And I made sure he knew it was a joke. Then I claimed the second role and made sure Ltin knew that that's the claim that my ability would be derived from. There's no parallel with that and the Amnesiac/Announcer claims yesterday. It was clear that Amnesiac was (is) my actual role, and that Announcer was the claim my ability would have been derived from. What I was saying with the "I think I didn't get a role because I claimed Amnesiac" stuff was that because I've claimed, my role no longer works. [That is the theory.] I hope this cleared it up, but I'm still not sure what you're trying to say.
But for further clarification basically most of what I said stems from when I said "I think you're lying about your role..." or at least hiding aspects of it.
Since I wasn't entirely sure, I tried going with both routes of 1) you aren't the amnesiac, and 2) you are telling the truth and are the amnesiac.
The argument there(referenced in the quotes) I believe I was trying to explain my thoughts on if you weren't the amnesiac, because that's the one I feel is more likely, but since I wasn't sure I added the "I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into this" part.

Why? Because I'm not entirely convinced Ltin would just take the actual role name of your role (if Amnesiac is the name of your role) + the explanation of your role ability in the same post, and just not give you an ability that night, especially since you claim you can sort of influence what you want the ability to be, with Ltin altering it if its too powerful/etc, which you had stated previously.
And so I think Amnesiac isn't your actual role, but I was also basing my arguments on the idea that you do have the ability you claim, of sort of choosing what ability you'd like at night. You just aren't called the "amnesiac," that's just another one of your cover roles like Stock Broker or Blueberry.

Plus, I just find it weird that, at least from what I've gathered from your previous posts (correct me if I'm wrong) that Ltin just wouldn't tell you, or be extremely vague on what you're ability that night would be:
I received nothing for my role. As in, I was not given a role. Typically I've been given my role at the start of each night, but I got nothing
This is going into assumptions which is terrible for making an argument but I would at least expect a "you get no action for tonight" or "no actions for the rest of the game," especially since that's how, from my understanding, has been how your role has worked for the entirety of the game, and it seems strange that it would just stop now of all times.
For a role that seems to have/need so many variables and interpretations that are needed for it, not having a clear explanation just feels...
...off.

Honestly, I'm not quite convinced.
But I'm not going to vote/hammer yet because rebuttals are good+I still want to look some things over.

>I don't really see Caff being evil based on the evidence of knowledge of actual messages being sent to both you and Moogs + the lack of tracked targets from last night.
>I can still see Ooglie being evil, but it seems like it makes more sense, similarly to how the Voltari Tribunal worked, that it was a townie-led organization that could potentially have anti-town in it because you could pick from basically everyone.
But being the president I don't quite see a third-party/mafia victory condition for such a role, unless it worked similarly to how my Innkeeper role worked in Pirates vs. Cowboys in being also a "creepy girl" so maybe he'd need X number of players to die while being on the BoD or something but based on what's happened it seems like only Infected has died while on the board so I very much doubt that's the case.
>And you already know my thoughts on Wim/Notty; Wim is apart of the security team and Notty has kind of proven themselves as the doctor, and so I trust we 3 while I'm uncertain on you other 3.

There's also the thought of Infected dying a couple nights ago, which has been bugging me, since it seemed like such a strange choice, since we already knew he was anti-town with a somewhat bothersome but not as powerful as other roles out there that could have been targeted like the doctor or me as the cop (since at that point I dont believe we thought I was modified) and I know Infected was suspicious of you and then he died so potential correlation but who knows.

I'm basically just throwing my thoughts out at this point but basically, yeah I'm just not convinced.
I'll post again with my decision on whether to vote or not probably tomorrow, unless Wim ends up hammering before then...
...but yeah. That about all I have to say.
 

Timdood3

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Plus, I just find it weird that, at least from what I've gathered from your previous posts (correct me if I'm wrong) that Ltin just wouldn't tell you, or be extremely vague on what you're ability that night would be:
At the start of the night, Ltin just didn't send me anything. I poked him to see if it was a mistake and he said I got no ability. I asked why and he "No comment"ed me.

I don't know what else to respond to, I just got off work and I'm braindead right now.
 

JKangaroo

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I'll just hammer then I guess.
Sorry tim, but even if there's some truth to the claim (which I'm sure there is), I don't see how you could be town-sided.
...
Unless you're evil. Then i'm not sorry.

<3

Vote timdood3
 

Ltin

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FINAL VOTECOUNT
Timdood3 - 4 (Nottykitten, Ooglie101, Caffeinatedkitty, JKangaroo)
Timdood3 has been lynched.


As the workers walked out of the stock exchange, they were greeted with guns and handcuffs. It quickly became apparent however that they were to be treated as heroes and not villains for their routing of the terrorists inside the building. Despite falling significantly, the markets did bounce back, with only minor economic consequences.
The Terrorists had failed.


Timdood3 was the Serial Killer.

The town wins!

Caffeinatedkitty was an Employee.

Wimali was the Sneaky Security Guard (tracker).

Jkangaroo was the Head of Security (cop, also runs and performs the night action of the security guard group).

Ooglie101 was the President (runs board of directors).

Nottykitten was the Doctor.


QUOTE OF THE GAME (as voted by the dead people)
what

how did I fuck this up so badly

I'm town ok

um
RUNNERS UP

Timdood3 said:
*stabs Mulbery*
*STAB STAB STAB STAB*
THERE'S JUST IN: THE STOCKS BACKING MULBERY'S LIFE HAVE FALLEN TO ZERO! HAHAHAHA
Ltin said:
I think you might be going insane.
Timdood3 said:
Shh, the voices will hear you.
BLANK SPACE
excuse me dess i do not appreciate being touched during the night!
Honorable mention to Ooglie101 for his paraphrase of the BoD chat

AWARDS

Lottery Ticket in the Dark Award for successful random actions: MarsKid

Print Award for superb planning: Timdood3

Epoxy Award for sticking with it: Infected_alien8_


Samlen has a game next i believe. GGWPNORE



This has been a presentation of
 
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Timdood3

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Notably: I cast only one vote the entire game. It was a no-lynch hammer vote to end the day faster. I was going to try to incorporate that into my claim somehow, but couldn't think of a way to work it believably.
 

MarsKid

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S/O to somehow killing mafia so well that people thought it was fake.

Good games, even though the scum were definitely playing from behind to start, and valiant effort from Tim.

Glad the town could pull through.
 
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