Mafia: Saints & Sinners - Day 3

BetaPanda

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I’m not defending Skele btw, we’re all as suspicious as each other at this point in the game but I’m just saying that there are other players right now who haven’t said much of anything
there is one person here who hasn't said anything in this game yet and it's that_guy

Literally the devil himself.

Sus rn because of the whole being sus of skele, it doesn’t sit well with me, I understand the suspicion towards me because of the theory stuff but skele hadn’t said much before that so it doesn’t make sense.
for me i don't find it suspicious for putting out some theories because i also have done that at some point on other mafia games

that’s actually less than usual :p

and no we’re not ganging up on vat as far as I’m aware :)
i mean he's already been called the devil 😈

It's a bit worrisome how many people jump to skele's defense even though he barely even got pushed. At the same time a lot of people are trying to get shade at me without even really pushing which also seems suspicious.
ok vat

Also I think it is weird that alisha suspects me already so much while she knows that I play like this from discord mafia. I could see her being devil trying to blend in with sinners, though she is not my top suspect right now.
The way you said this is kinda strange
 

Infected_alien8_

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oh right i had more questions for vat too:
At the same time a lot of people are trying to get shade at me without even really pushing which also seems suspicious.
why is that suspicious? did you not do the same with your suspects?

I could see her being devil trying to blend in with sinners, though she is not my top suspect right now.
who is your top suspect, and why?
 

BetaPanda

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why?

what about the fact vat said it wasn't because of anything skele said, more that he'd expect skele to say more if he were town?
in good skele's defense, this is day 0 and he did say he's busy irl (although it could be a bluff)
i don't really see what he's activity is like in other mafia games but i don't see him a type of person who's really super into it, in my eyes at least.

I see it as a weird excuse by vat of why good skele is sus, because this statement can kinda be used to anyone who isn't active in the beginning of the game
 

Timdood3

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also Timdood3 why are you sus of vat again? what about his calling out of skele didn't you like/why did it feel scummy?
Seems like he was jumping too hard to pinpointing scum too early.
What I mean by this is:
Assuming he's in a scum mindset, it looks like he could've been thinking to himself that he needed to start (looking like he was) finding scum and so picked an unremarkable player to call out, oblivious to the fact that it was way to early for scumhunting of that degree to be feasible.

I wouldn't say that I'm necessarily sus of him for it, though. I could just as easily see it as a playstyle difference with him having mostly discord experience.
 

Fog

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I could see her being devil trying to blend in with sinners
So, I read this post and originally I was like. Yeah, but her and Tim(?) have both basically confirmed that they have the same role which is like an oh we can make a deal with the devil for some unknown cost and get an ability, or multiple abilities to use in the game.

Which initially I was like well, not being funny but I doubt that the two of them have like a mafia open chat and have been making a plan to come up with a role and both follow along with each others story of the role and how the mechanics work. So I was town reading them both.

Then Vat made the post and it made me re-assess the situation, like what if Alisha is the devil and has been informed that "sinners" are able to make deals with her in exchange for certain abilities - therefore clueing her in on another role in the game. This then lead me to remember that right at the beginning of the game Alisha straight out of the gates was like " I AM A SINNER WHO ELSE IS A SINNER" potentially in an attempt to work out what players would still be valuable to her in the game and who she should avoid lynching.

So for now...
UNVOTE
VOTE ALISHA <3
 

Infected_alien8_

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So, I read this post and originally I was like. Yeah, but her and Tim(?) have both basically confirmed that they have the same role which is like an oh we can make a deal with the devil for some unknown cost and get an ability, or multiple abilities to use in the game.

Which initially I was like well, not being funny but I doubt that the two of them have like a mafia open chat and have been making a plan to come up with a role and both follow along with each others story of the role and how the mechanics work. So I was town reading them both.

Then Vat made the post and it made me re-assess the situation, like what if Alisha is the devil and has been informed that "sinners" are able to make deals with her in exchange for certain abilities - therefore clueing her in on another role in the game. This then lead me to remember that right at the beginning of the game Alisha straight out of the gates was like " I AM A SINNER WHO ELSE IS A SINNER" potentially in an attempt to work out what players would still be valuable to her in the game and who she should avoid lynching.

So for now...
UNVOTE
VOTE ALISHA <3
what do you think of vat and the points brought up against him?
 

Alisha

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So, I read this post and originally I was like. Yeah, but her and Tim(?) have both basically confirmed that they have the same role which is like an oh we can make a deal with the devil for some unknown cost and get an ability, or multiple abilities to use in the game.

Which initially I was like well, not being funny but I doubt that the two of them have like a mafia open chat and have been making a plan to come up with a role and both follow along with each others story of the role and how the mechanics work. So I was town reading them both.

Then Vat made the post and it made me re-assess the situation, like what if Alisha is the devil and has been informed that "sinners" are able to make deals with her in exchange for certain abilities - therefore clueing her in on another role in the game. This then lead me to remember that right at the beginning of the game Alisha straight out of the gates was like " I AM A SINNER WHO ELSE IS A SINNER" potentially in an attempt to work out what players would still be valuable to her in the game and who she should avoid lynching.

So for now...
UNVOTE
VOTE ALISHA <3
bullshit, timdood brought up the idea first and i jumped onto it.
 

Stranger from Myst Island

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Votecount 5: Life is Strange
Infected_Alien8_ - HKCaper, Vatumok [L-5]
HKCaper - Unusual_Dood [L-6]
Everyone - Timdood3 [L-6]
Timdood3 - Aqua [L-6]
Vatumok - Alisha [L-6]
Alisha <3 - Fog [L-6]

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch and 6 votes to no-lynch. If hammer is not reached by the deadline, nobody will be lynched.

In addition, here's a deadline for Day 0:

Click here for Day 0 Deadline
 

sessybessy

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Vat just seemed to be clutching at straws when calling Skele out like with me it made sense but Skele really hadn’t said much (again, could be a bluff but in times like these it’s feasible that life can be busy) it just seems like he’s trying to push someone in to the spotlight for the sake of it and to get a quick lynch and make his life easier. I’ve only played a few games with Skele and they seem to be less active during the start of the games imo but I could be wrong.

I also feel as though Alisha and Timdood know more than they are letting on in this case, slightly suspicious of both of them.
 

Unusual_Dood

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I am a bit occupied for. today but I will try to get a look at what has happened later today. Anyway, some quick thoughts; Initially I thought the quick suspicion on Vat was a bit worrying, as most of their reads gave sense to me. And I also think lack of posting is a completly valid reason to call anyone out (although I wouldn’t say d0 necessarily is a good indicator for tht, as some just find it boring).

Then I understand some are suspicious of Alisha for syggesting people to claim what they are. If she was the Devil I think it is a silly plan to believe everyone would just straight out claim what they are when there was already said there was unknown conseqeunces. Also, it isn’t unlikely the question would have been brought up anyway, so I don’t think the Devil would initiate it that early.

I don’t like Fog’s attempt to push a lynch on Alisha d0, especially since she has been active and contributive. Although this differs from person to person, the general trend for the recent games have been that mafias have been staying under the radar (except for when Inf is mafia and the average mafia activity is very high).
My intuition also says HK, although I don’t remember what he has said since the start.
 

Aqua

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Then Vat made the post and it made me re-assess the situation, like what if Alisha is the devil and has been informed that "sinners" are able to make deals with her in exchange for certain abilities - therefore clueing her in on another role in the game. This then lead me to remember that right at the beginning of the game Alisha straight out of the gates was like " I AM A SINNER WHO ELSE IS A SINNER" potentially in an attempt to work out what players would still be valuable to her in the game and who she should avoid lynching.
Also I swear nobody ever reads my posts
 

MarsKid

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Holy mother of speculation

Quick thoughts since these are some trending topics:

1) Skele is the worst suspicion to have ever because he's an actual blank slate; convinced this man does not exist. Could easily be town or scum and there's never a way of knowing. Frustrating 24/7
2) Vat sus'd Skele but never made a sufficient push, just tossed it out there. Bad move but it's getting exaggerated.
3) Agreed that there is a bait aspect w/deals or maf can force deals, or otherwise town would never take a chance to compromise town. Notty is not in the game so there is theoretically no at-risk townies to switch (unless Alisha & Tim decide to commit?)

Related to 3), if there is a 'catch' aspect a la vote stealing, this would be terrible in late game. IDK who suggested it because catching up on 13 pages already is hurting my brain, but making a deal in that scenario could easily cost a MYLO/LYLO situation.
 

Infected_alien8_

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2) Vat sus'd Skele but never made a sufficient push, just tossed it out there. Bad move but it's getting exaggerated.
by 'bad move' do you mean scummy move? what's your read on vat?

Related to 3), if there is a 'catch' aspect a la vote stealing, this would be terrible in late game. IDK who suggested it because catching up on 13 pages already is hurting my brain, but making a deal in that scenario could easily cost a MYLO/LYLO situation.
not sure if you're talking about my suggestion or not - it was me who said we should hold off making deals unless it's late in the game and things aren't going well for town, only if people think it could be worth the risk, but you make a good point about late game vote taking being a massive risk

so maybe deals are just never a good idea to make
 

MarsKid

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In my opinion I think that The Devil is probably Mafia aligned and not third party since the whole theme of the game seems to be ‘The Devil and his advocates’ a potential theory I’ve thought it could be that The Devil doesn’t know who their team is but can give a night order or advice to their team or even send one of them after a specific player to do The Devil’s dirty work for them.

also maybe ‘making a deal with the devil’ could grant you invulnerability for a night rather than alignment shifting since I feel as though if town were losing people would jump ship to get a win

Literally just an early game theory
I’m not sure how third parties work tho
Comes across as very specific imo for just a theory.

Assuming devil is in the dark, ruins the setup tbh; maf could very easily accidentally hit him N1 and there goes the deal-making aspect this game seems to hinge on. Either they are one-shot bp then or they're in maf team from the get-go.

maybe The Devil specifically targets sinner roles? I’m not definitely saying Alisha is scum but it’s a possibility that The Devil seeks sinner roles because they’re easier to ‘convert’
This was brought up before you made this post.

I mean Skele did explain that they were busy (don’t believe everything that is said on the internet kids) which can also just be ‘get out of jail’ card but there have been a few quiet-ish players this game so far
I’m not defending Skele btw, we’re all as suspicious as each other at this point in the game but I’m just saying that there are other players right now who haven’t said much of anything
Vat's posting is very oddly distant but he has a point in that his Skele 'read' has had more people talking about it than Vat themselves. I get it's a shoddy read to toss out but it got zero-ed in on quick. Obv the counter is that it was a throaway LAMIST read but the focus on it is compelling.

Adding that extra post is there just to cover your ass if a read goes wrong and I don't like it.
 

MarsKid

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by 'bad move' do you mean scummy move? what's your read on vat?
Leaning scum right now. Their posting in general reads awkward to me, esp considering downplaying maf experience when I played/saw games on this forum in the past with Vat involved. That being said, the Skele read is getting blown out of proportion imo.


not sure if you're talking about my suggestion or not - it was me who said we should hold off making deals unless it's late in the game and things aren't going well for town, only if people think it could be worth the risk, but you make a good point about late game vote taking being a massive risk

so maybe deals are just never a good idea to make
Basically what Aqua has been saying b/c deals are objectively terrible for town no matter assumption you make. Essentially, you are either:
1) Trading a vote
2) Sacrificing an ability
3) Shifting alignment
And whatever else. Especially b/c if town are assumed to be able to holster abilities gained from deals, the same assumption can be applied to whatever the devil gains. So maf can stockpile in that scenario just as well as town can.

Giving up a vote rn might not seem a big deal since it's D0, but neck-and-neck, game-deciding votes could instantly be controlled completely by the devil.
 

MarsKid

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Would like more content from lurker extraordinaire HKCaper , Fog , and BetaPanda

i kinda agree with this
But why? Cult roles universally despised. Any sort of conversion of that magnitude is easily game-breaking.

for me i don't find it suspicious for putting out some theories because i also have done that at some point on other mafia games
What theories do you have rn then, your current posting is meat-deficient.
 
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