your beauty yes, your role not so much.
just feels like a nice claim made up where you'll never be lynched because it wont do anything and its not weird mafia wont kill you, cus its useless and you cant be confirmed town.
Mafia: Saints & Sinners - GAME OVER MAFIA WIN
- Thread starter Stranger from Myst Island
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just feels like a nice claim made up where you'll never be lynched because it wont do anything and its not weird mafia wont kill you, cus its useless and you cant be confirmed town.
I'm so suspicious of inf... only after pages of arguing he's now somewhat accepting that I'm most definitely town but is STILL insisting my role is a 50/50 whether it's fake or not.
On it's own that 50/50 number comes out of nowhere and makes no sense but in the context of the situation it feels like he's trying tofocus on this point to make me seem scummier than I am.
It's unhelpful and makes no sense - especially coming from inf.
"now"
ive said this since my big post on you
ive said it several times in fact, for example, here i said it again
im not "pushing this point so much" the only reason ive said it more than once is because you keep bringing it up
i bring it up since it shouldnt be ignored, since its not impossible youre scum, its not impossible you came up with the fakeclaim night 1 (since you couldve come up with the voodoo thing without this claim in mind, its mostly how you dealt with tim/alisha thats evidence for you, which was day 1). its not impossible we dont have a cop this game due to the several tracks we're able to attain. so late-game if theres still no evidence of a hypnotist role we should look at you again
thats literally just an ability to deny other town of their choice of using their ability which seems unlikely to me
and again, highly doubt maf have poor sinners
1) yeah but thats not relevant to my point, im talking about the other part of his role, if thats useless then it brings his whole claim into doubt for me. 2) see my point right above this. 3) that just doesnt make sense to me bearing in mind sinners dont even get abilities til the next night so how would aqua's role protect against a voodoo role
the reason im confident is since i cant see any other point to that part of his role. if you or someone else can think of something then by all means im all ears, but so far i cant think of any other purpose for his role.
what???
ive said i think youre town ever since my big post yesterday
ive never been resistent to the idea that youre probably town
you and hk just randomly started acting like im attacking you just because im pointing out that we should have a maf hypnotist if your role is to make any sense, even though im not using that as a reason to not believe you
do you truly disagree that theres roughly equal chance that either a) the nokill n1 wasnt due to hk saving you, b) the hypnotist role exists but has just happened to not show any evidence of it yet
if you agree, bearing in mind you also agree that your role needs a hypnotist role to make sense, why do you disagree with the idea that your role has a 50/50 of being town or scum (again, looking at the claim in isolation, not your behaviour, because as ive said multiple times, your behaviour is townie and fits your claim)
i wasnt even focusing on it until you kept bringing it up
if you think im trying to set you up as a mislynch then explain why i keep saying i think youre town
besides i can hopefully prove myself tonight anyway so focusing on me today really isnt going to get anywhere anyway
That's literally what your ability does too????????
There is as much evidence for mafia sinners as there is for mafia poor sinners or for mafia hypnotists which is none OTHER than our claims.
The fact you're so eager to brush off hypothetical mechanics supporting the purpose of my role - but are happy to acknowledge and even push the idea that mafia has sinners in order to give credence to your role is insane?
So tell me inf, what's the point of your role and why are you so confident that it isn't to stop town sinners?
It's honestly classic Jordan Peterson 101 on how to bullshit
give a bunch of descriptive claims in order to put a specific agenda or opinion in someones head but fall short of a normative claim so you can runaway from facing any repercussions of pushing that POV.
except i dont think it is
theres flavour evidence that poor sinners are town
but yeah the others have no evidence aside from our claims
what? what "hypothetical mechanics" am i brushing off, aside from ones that dont make sense?
im acknowledging and pushing the idea the mafia has sinners because i know my role is real and thats the only way i can see it having purpose
just like how im acknowledging and pushing the idea that mafia has a hypnotist role, despite 0 evidence for it, because i think youre town and thats the only way your role makes sense to me
to stop mafia making deals with the devil
my role would be silly if it were just to save town sided sinners from making deals, because either a) itd just be declining sinners their own choice for their own role which makes no sense to me, or b) theres a hypnotist role in which case my role would render any of their efforts entirely useless since a sinner would just be able to say 'i got forced into a deal' and then id visit them and undo it as long as i was alive/not blocked, unless the sinner isnt allowed to say they were forced into a deal i guess, thats possible and i wasnt considering that
"let me address all the reasons aqua could be town or scum and give my honest conclusion. i think his role, if you look at it in isolation, is 50/50 either way, and so i dont want to make a lynch choice off of it because it could easily swing either way and i dont want to lynch based on it. so instead i want to go back to lynching based off reads, which i think hes town, and i think vat's scum." is what my point was.
im not saying "guys there's a 50% chance aqua is scum so lets get him" im saying "looking at aquas roleclaim is pointless since it could either be scum or town, so lets look at his vibes and behaviour instead", for which case almost everyone has been universally townreading you
so again if you think im trying to mislynch you, youre paranoid
except i literally tried to prove your role by getting tim to make another deal
but yeah, im obviously trying to mislynch you
But you're denying that my role could apply to these mafia sinners when there is more evidence to support that logic than there is to support a hypnotist role
I'm not paranoid I'm malding because I feel pretty betrayed. They way you have gone about this and phrased this is definitely in a way that implies I am scum, even Hk go that exact same vibe so it has nothing to do with me being paranoid.
I'll accept you worded your argument badly I guess if that genuinely wasn't your intention but it still feels like an attempted descriptive/normative meme which is one of the worst bad faith arguments you can make
genuinely i dont understand why both of you got that impression
ive said over and over that i think youre town
the 50/50 point is me saying "the claim could go either way, so im not lynching based on it, i want to look at him outside of his claim, for which i think hes town"
but you two seem to misinterpret it as me saying "aqua has a 50% chance of being scum so lets lynch him" but that wasnt what i said at any point
idk what this is
How?
My role is evidence that I can stop DWTD - implying eitherit's anti dumb townie, it's anti hypnotist or it's anti sinner
fog's deal not being accepted suggests another deal took it's palce. As no townie's stepped forward that implies there are mafia sinners making deals.
these are two pieces of evidence supporting mafia sinners.
oh i thought you meant Poor Sinner mafia role, specifically
i agree there are most likely mafia who can make deals, i just dont think theyre called Poor Sinners, i think thats the town name for them, because the flavour implies sinners = town and the "poor" part comes from the fact theyre "poor, unsuspecting" people from the devil's point of view
a descriptive claim is where someone says something as a description of absolute fact, how something is.
a normative claim is where someone says something as an opinion of how it should be, how something ought to be.
I assume as a Psychologist you're familiar with Jordan Peterson but he's a shill who does this all the time.
If you present an argument as a bunch ofcarefully selected descriptive claims thatpush a specific agenda without giving a normative claim of how something ought to be - readers will think they're forming their own conclusion when in reality they're just assuming the agenda that is implied via the descriptive claims.
Here you are giving big buzzword descriptive claims such as 50/50 chance of my role being mafia without properly emphasising where this stands in the grand scheme of things other than "Oh I think he's town". So people reading this (aka me and hk, which is why we called you out) inherently assume the position that the 50/50 chance of me being mafia is a valuable argument and is the deciding factor of whether I'm mafia.
A good example of JP doing this, since we're on the topic and fuck JP, is his opinion of women in the work place and sexual harassment:
He will say make up is inertly sexual, a lack of dresscode (which is fucking bullshit btw) can be sexual etc.
he gives a bunch of descriptive claims about women in the workplace while falling short of saying this is why they are sexually harassed/this is why womend on't belong in the work place.... instead saying he doesn't know.
This is what you're doing inf whether intentional or not.
Would you argue that a member of a cult is a victim despite joining of their own free will and participating in whatever nefarious acts the cult carries out?
I see the mafia DWTD thing being as much of a stretch tho, assuming there are 3 mafia (2 if the devil is included) it seems so unlikely your role would ever see any use if it was intended to be directed at mafia sinners or whatever. I'm pretty sure, if we are both townies, that our abilities are both intended for use on townies
i just dont see why stranger would make a bunch of town roles who are able to deal with the devil, then make another town role who can stop them from being able to, unless they werent always in control of their actions. its giving 1 town more of a right to decide on how someone uses their role than the person with the role themselves and it just doesnt make any sense to me.
but what do you think about lynching skele today, vat making a deal today, and you choosing vat today?
to confirm all aspects of your role, since being able to tell whos a sinner or not doesnt inherently prove you as town since it could be a role for maf to locate sinners and that we just dont have a cop this game since we have loads of trackers/blockers potentially instead. being able to prevent town's deals is inherently townie though imo, so if you prove you can do it, youre essentially confirmed town to me
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