Mafia Lite 2

[HarmakAnna]

Went back to grab a bit more information.

Remember balloon's lynching? Vati said that he was probably lynched because because he was one of the most experienced, having played all of Alpha's games and winning 2. Original post:

Everyone in this game has mafia experience. In fact balloon played in all of alphas mafia game and won 2 of them. He is one of the people who have the most mafia experience. Also Sploorky has less experience then balloon and Jk I forget. The 2 people who have a little less experience in mafia would probably be me and theo

So why haven't the mafia killed me that day instead, or the next night if that's the case?

Also, some discussion questions:
1. Who do you find most suspicious?

2. Why?

3. If you were mafia, how would you "cover your tracks?"

 

[Vatowski]

So why haven't the mafia killed me that day instead, or the next night if that's the case?

To be honest, I do not know, maybe they are scared to kill the janitor, or maybe they somehow got a lead that Dessern was the watcher/tracker thingy

 

[JKangaroo]

Went back to grab a bit more information.

Remember balloon's lynching? Vati said that he was probably lynched because because he was one of the most experienced, having played all of Alpha's games and winning 2. Original post:

Everyone in this game has mafia experience. In fact balloon played in all of alphas mafia game and won 2 of them. He is one of the people who have the most mafia experience. Also Sploorky has less experience then balloon and Jk I forget. The 2 people who have a little less experience in mafia would probably be me and theo

So why haven't the mafia killed me that day instead, or the next night if that's the case?

Also, some discussion questions:
1. Who do you find most suspicious?

2. Why?

3. If you were mafia, how would you "cover your tracks?"

I think you meant kill there.*

Anyways, since you brought that up, I highly doubt balloon was killed just because he has played in every single Mafia game to date (counting Mafia Japan and Mafia Lite v1).
Experience does not come from just being apart of these games, its actually posting your thoughts in a sensible way, and participating on either a regular or extreme basis. Whenever I've seen balloon play (and apologies if this sounds rude), but I've never really witnessed any great arguments come from him.
I still remember when he, a human, purposefully let an obvious "slip-up" with the idea of him being apart of the Mafia so the town could essentially lynch him off, JUST so we ended the first day faster. We were having such good arguments between ourselves, and we could've possibly made a really good lynch or not-lynch if that did not happen. I don't see how something like that can formulate experience for Mafia.

Additionally to continue that basis, I don't actually think many people pay attention to details like that: "He's played in every single Mafia game."
It's such a small, menial idea that can easily be forgotten in my opinion.
Plus, I can probably say that the majority of the people who have actually participated in these Forum Mafia games are basically the same cast of characters. The majority of us ALL HAVE a large amount of experience from playing in these games. Although some may have participated in more games over others, the idea still stands that we all have basically played together in the majority of these matches.

I would probably say the death of balloon was more random than anything.

To be honest, I do not know, maybe they are scared to kill the janitor, or maybe they somehow got a lead that Dessern was the watcher/tracker thingy

I doubt they wouldn't choose not to kill Harmak just because of that point.
Once again, note that this is a game where basically no one knows whom is who, and what role each player has in their arsenal. It's a game of mystique and intrigue. It takes time to widdle each and every players roles if the game goes in a certain direction. Even when the game ends, we may not even know who may be who until the "Game-Master" (Prizyms) actually releases the roles and who has won the game; again if the circumstances come to that.
Obviously the Mafia has to be careful, because even they do not know who their team-mate is, so every killing is probably a risk for them.

BUT- I must say that is just not a good reason to consider that Harmak hasn't died yet.

I want to point something out.
Vati, when you replied to Harmak on "Why he hasn't died yet" since I believe he was referencing that he has also participated in every Mafia game to date, you state what has been seen above:
"maybe they are scared to kill the janitor."
This, in my opinion, based on the reasoning already seen above, sounds like you are accusing Harmak of being the Janitor.

Again: We do not know what roles each player has. The same goes for the Mafia with the janitor. We cannot simply guess that Harmak hasn't died just because "the Mafia are scared to kill the janitor," because this statement is only referencing one person; that being Harmak.

I want you to clarify this for me, please.

 

[Vatowski]

I think you meant kill there.*

Anyways, since you brought that up, I highly doubt balloon was killed just because he has played in every single Mafia game to date (counting Mafia Japan and Mafia Lite v1).
Experience does not come from just being apart of these games, its actually posting your thoughts in a sensible way, and participating on either a regular or extreme basis. Whenever I've seen balloon play (and apologies if this sounds rude), but I've never really witnessed any great arguments come from him.
I still remember when he, a human, purposefully let an obvious "slip-up" with the idea of him being apart of the Mafia so the town could essentially lynch him off, JUST so we ended the first day faster. We were having such good arguments between ourselves, and we could've possibly made a really good lynch or not-lynch if that did not happen. I don't see how something like that can formulate experience for Mafia.

Additionally to continue that basis, I don't actually think many people pay attention to details like that: "He's played in every single Mafia game."
It's such a small, menial idea that can easily be forgotten in my opinion.
Plus, I can probably say that the majority of the people who have actually participated in these Forum Mafia games are basically the same cast of characters. The majority of us ALL HAVE a large amount of experience from playing in these games. Although some may have participated in more games over others, the idea still stands that we all have basically played together in the majority of these matches.

I would probably say the death of balloon was more random than anything.



I doubt they wouldn't choose not to kill Harmak just because of that point.
Once again, note that this is a game where basically no one knows whom is who, and what role each player has in their arsenal. It's a game of mystique and intrigue. It takes time to widdle each and every players roles if the game goes in a certain direction. Even when the game ends, we may not even know who may be who until the "Game-Master" (Prizyms) actually releases the roles and who has won the game; again if the circumstances come to that.
Obviously the Mafia has to be careful, because even they do not know who their team-mate is, so every killing is probably a risk for them.

BUT- I must say that is just not a good reason to consider that Harmak hasn't died yet.

I want to point something out.
Vati, when you replied to Harmak on "Why he hasn't died yet" since I believe he was referencing that he has also participated in every Mafia game to date, you state what has been seen above:
"maybe they are scared to kill the janitor."
This, in my opinion, based on the reasoning already seen above, sounds like you are accusing Harmak of being the Janitor.

Again: We do not know what roles each player has. The same goes for the Mafia with the janitor. We cannot simply guess that Harmak hasn't died just because "the Mafia are scared to kill the janitor," because this statement is only referencing one person; that being Harmak.

I want you to clarify this for me, please.

I did not state that Harmak was abosolutly the Janitor I simply said that maybe he was the janitor.

 

[JKangaroo]

I did not state that Harmak was abosolutly the Janitor I simply said that maybe he was the janitor.

I didn't say you "absolutely" call Harmak the Janitor. I just said it sounded like it.

As I said before: we don't know who is who, and what role each of us plays. I could be the bodygaurd or the Mafia, or something completely different. You could be a villager, or a disguiser, or a watcher, or etc. Anyone can be anything at least to this date in time.

I wanted to know why you think Harmak may be janitor. There had to be some idea behind you making that post. Not just what I said above where "he could be, but so could anyone else." You must of had something that ticked you off toward suspecting Harmak of that SPECIFIC role.

 

[Vatowski]

I didn't say you "absolutely" call Harmak the Janitor. I just said it sounded like it.

As I said before: we don't know who is who, and what role each of us plays. I could be the bodygaurd or the Mafia, or something completely different. You could be a villager, or a disguiser, or a watcher, or etc. Anyone can be anything at least to this date in time.

I wanted to know why you think Harmak may be janitor. There had to be some idea behind you making that post. Not just what I said above where "he could be, but so could anyone else." You must of had something that ticked you off toward suspecting Harmak of that SPECIFIC role.

no I do not

 

[Sploorky]

Ok, so it seems that we don't have any leads.

What is everybody's thoughts on having the watcher reveal himself?

 

[Mooglie]

S/he's going to be at a BIG risk if they reveal themselves. Then if the bodyguard wants to save them that puts the bodyguard at risk. So if that happens the next night the bodyguard would die, then the watcher after and welp, that's no good.

 

[Sploorky]

True.

The watcher should reveal themselves IF they have a lead. We aren't gaining anything from the discussions beforehand. If anybody has suspicions, please share, and delay putting the watcher on the spot.

If we mislynch, the town is dead. If we don't lynch, the town has a very high chance of dying. We need to find the mafia. Sacrificing the watcher may be the only way to do that.

 

[77thShad]

Since the watcher isn't coming forward I'll just vote for Jkangaroo to keep the game moving along.

 

[JKangaroo]

Since the watcher isn't coming forward I'll just vote for Jkangaroo to keep the game moving along.

I would like you to give a reason/explanation on why you have decided to lynch/vote me off. The remaining players most likely would also like to hear your explanation, as it may give further insight for the game further down the line, and may shed some light/light a spark of suspicion, inspiration, or etc from the playerbase in question.

Unless an explanation on your suspicion is raised, I don't really believe this is a very strong vote to place, or on anyone else for that matter as you have not placed any evidence behind it.
But!-- When you do give it, hopefully we can get some discussion moving along! (which is a good thing)

Anyways, we haven't had much discussion at all for the past few days.
Whether it's just because we have no leads, or many of us have just been busy spending time with the family/etc as it is quite late into the holiday season, I do not know.
But, what I do agree with, is that we should probably get this game rolling more, because we really haven't been paying much attention to it/giving much discussion and arguments in the past few days and weeks.

For the most part, there are 7 of us left; Balloon slain on the first night, Dessern on the Second.
Who is remaining?:
- vati180
- 77_is_the_best
- Sploorky
- theodorre
- Ooglie101
- HarmakPaul
- JKangaroo(myself)
3 of us remaining players are apart of the Mafia: 1 Janitor, 1 Disguiser, 1 Normal Mafia Member
The other 4 are apart of the town, 1 Bodyguard, 1 Watcher, and 2 Normal Villagers/Citizens.
There are a lot of possibilities on who can be whom, and we haven't entirely situated ideas very well in terms on whom we have deemed suspicious.

At the moment, I must say that the lack of discussion and such has really not made me suspicious of anybody as of late.
We need things to discuss, and possibly bring out ideas and arguments out of specific people.
Possibly listing our suspicions on each person is a good idea, and I plan on posting my thoughts later after I fully flesh out my thoughts on it and re-reading the thread to possibly find anything that pops out at me.

 

[77thShad]

Jkangaroo I think we can all agree is the best player here. 2 nights have passed and other people have died. Wouldn't the mafia get rid of the better players first? UNLESS Jk is the mafia.
It was the same with defiant in season 4, he reached day 3/4. I as the vigilante killed him and he was mafia.
It may be a small thing but I thought I'de just point out that Jk is still in after 2 killings.

Mostly this, then you defended yourself by "I don't like how people accuse players because they are good and haven't died yet or they are quiet so find more reasons please"

The fact is you WILL be targeted by the mafia if your a good player. You WILL be accused if your being quiet. And I find it very weird that you haven't died yet.

My vote stands.

 

[Sploorky]

Ok.

Is JK guilty? Maybe. But 77, I feel your vote is flawed. Who is the best player is pure opinion. I feel JK is a skilled player, but does that mean everybody else should? Of course not. In the end, it's opinion.

And the mafia could just use this train of thought to their advantage. "Oh hey, he's a good player. Let's leave him alone, and the town will eventually lynch him because he isn't dead". We've already had people accusing each other er of being mafia on the fact that they weren't killed in previous forum games

And this lack of discussion is killing us. Speak, people.

 

[JKangaroo]

Mostly this, then you defended yourself by "I don't like how people accuse players because they are good and haven't died yet or they are quiet so find more reasons please"

The fact is you WILL be targeted by the mafia if your a good player. You WILL be accused if your being quiet. And I find it very weird that you haven't died yet.

My vote stands.

Not Necessarily.
It wasn't as much as a defense, as I was not being accused of or argued against in that time and circumstance,
but more of an opinionated response to what was being discussed during that time period.
Again, as I stated before, it is a personal opinion I've had grown over the period of these forum Mafia games.
It's mainly stemmed from back when those who have played a quiet role in games back when I first joined into these forum games in Mafia Season 2, and has been somewhat apparent in the Mafia Seasons afterwards.
The fact is: This idea of "skilled players" has only come into focus this season due to actions formed last season.
We shouldn't just base our thoughts on singular examples that honestly, occurred by chance during last, and past seasons, as was the case with Defiant.

Again, as I stated in my elongated post on the previous page of this thread: I do dislike the idea of people soley having an outlook of "this player is quiet and/or considered skilled" as a means of lynching players off.
I found it to be a shoddy, biased form of an outlook on how the game works. Unless there was some proper evidence or suspicions brought through discussion, I don't really find arguments using these forms to base themselves on very reliable.
How is a player even supposed to defend themselves against accusations of being a Mafia when the only idea being forced down their throats by the prosecution is; "You have been to quiet this Mafia game," or "you are very good at this game."
It's a one-sided argument, and leaves a lot of be desired in terms of ideas to actually back up such claims.

If this was to be the case in which we actually decided our lynching format, then perhaps players falling under this category shouldn't even play Mafia in the first place.
Perhaps, because I, or Darth, or Sploorky, Jolteon, or etc who have been dubbed "skilled" or "quiet" should just stop playing in any further installments of Mafia because we obviously will all die in the first few days; and if not, then we obviously will just be Mafia in the end.
What is the point in playing if that will just end up being the case in the eyes of the other players?
I won't even have as much of a chance to really discuss anything properly or even look out for possible suspects if I, and other players will just be bombarded with said accusations of "being to quiet" or "being very skilled" in certain aspects.
This idea goes for players even if they are the Mafia or not.
If this must be the idea that so presently holds certain players, perhaps I will simply not participate in any more Mafia games if this must be so.

The thing is: Mafia, as I have stated so many times before, is a game where our roles are RANDOMIZED. We do not know whom is whom, and unless we find good ideas to base ourselves on instead of rudimentary ideas already set in place such as "quietness" and "being skilled," and even other categories people can fall under like "being less skilled/mediocrity" (hate those terms, especially in Mafia games), or "people who talk just enough or people who discuss a lot."
We should not focus on these categories, because there is no evidence behind them.
We should focus on people whom we deem suspicious through their actions, and any ideas you might have that can lead to possible suspects, in which we can actually find some ideal evidence or suspicions to back those ideas up upon.

I do not have a defense against that claim, because I do not need one in my opinion.
What I have stated here continues my opinion which I have created for myself from the following page, and other posts of similar interest.
If in any case, it was to shed more light upon the idea in question.
So, If I must be suspected on an opinion and ideal I currently have set myself upon and that I do dislike;
If I must be suspected on an opinion;

Then so be it.

 

[JKangaroo]

Well I took longer than I thought, Sploorky kind of beat me to the punch it seems. >.<

 

[77thShad]

Well anyone else have any suggestions? It is the only lead I can think of, and the watcher hasn't come forward with anything... So... Yeah...

 

[Prizyms]

!​

I did warn you that this game would be confusing!​

 

[Prizyms]

It would seem that this game is dead.

Sploorky
HarmakPaul
Ooglie101
JKangaroo
vati180
77_is_the_best
theodorre

Worth continuing, or should we stop the game here and allow The road to ruin to start Mafia Season 5?

 

[Mooglie]

I DON'T KNOW D:

 

[Sploorky]

It's worth continuing, but people need to TALK.

 

[Vatowski]

I blame jte

 

[77thShad]

I blame jte

^^^^^

 

[Theodorre]

I blame the holidays.

 

[77thShad]

I vote we just finish this up, I would rather find out everyone's roles now than for everyone to forget about this (which is what is happening) and the game not finishing and the roles not being revealed.

 

[77thShad]

Prizyms