LOL: The League Of Legends
- Thread starter Cheeseman21
- Start date
- Status
D I A M O N D B O Y S[sup]Most nerveracking promo games I've ever played[/sup]
ʇnoqɐ ƃuᴉʞlɐʇ sᴉ ǝɥ ʇɐɥʍ ʍouʞ ʇ,usǝop ʎɐſ uɐɯ ʇᴉ ǝʌɹǝsǝp ʎllɐʇoʇ no⅄
I tried to like this post but everything was upside down
At this point we may as well revert the Syndra nerfs because no mage will ever be given a chance in this game. Either you play a nearly full tank toplane style or you get out because you're crowding Zed. Maybe if they responsibly compensated instead of going fucking crazy or you know, pulled a Kassadin and nerfed slowly and precisely, this wouldn't have happened.
Spectre's Cowl
HEALTH REGENERATION: 100% base health regen ⇒ 150% base health regen
Ahri
Q - Orb of Deception
COST: 55/60/65/70/75 mana ⇒ 65/70/75/80/85 mana
W - Fox-Fire
DO A BARREL ROLL: Fox-Fire's rotation speed has been increased by ~30%. This means if Ahri's hitting a champion with Fox-Fire at maximum range, she won't have to wait as long for her other Fox-Fires to rotate closer.
DAMAGE: 50/80/110/140/170 magic damage ⇒ 40/65/90/115/140 magic damage
ACQUISITION RANGE: 650 ⇒ 550
R - Spirit Rush
ACQUISITION RANGE: 700 ⇒ 600
Azir
Q - Conquering Sands
BASE DAMAGE: 75/105/135/165/195 magic damage ⇒65/85/105/125/145 magic damage
W - Arise!
SOLDIER STAB RANGE: ~400 ⇒ ~325 (we're marking them as approximate values because they get very complicated)
TOWER BOMB DAMAGE: The tooltip values were incorrectly saying +0.6 ability power (it's actually 0.7).90 + (15 x level) (0.7 ability power) ⇒ 50 + (10 x level) (0.4 ability power)
Riot hates mages and will never give them the nerfs ( OR BUFFS ) they deserve. Probably they make them so strong JUST to have a reason to tear them down
Spectre's Cowl
HEALTH REGENERATION: 100% base health regen ⇒ 150% base health regen
Ahri
Q - Orb of Deception
COST: 55/60/65/70/75 mana ⇒ 65/70/75/80/85 mana
W - Fox-Fire
DO A BARREL ROLL: Fox-Fire's rotation speed has been increased by ~30%. This means if Ahri's hitting a champion with Fox-Fire at maximum range, she won't have to wait as long for her other Fox-Fires to rotate closer.
DAMAGE: 50/80/110/140/170 magic damage ⇒ 40/65/90/115/140 magic damage
ACQUISITION RANGE: 650 ⇒ 550
R - Spirit Rush
ACQUISITION RANGE: 700 ⇒ 600
Azir
Q - Conquering Sands
BASE DAMAGE: 75/105/135/165/195 magic damage ⇒65/85/105/125/145 magic damage
W - Arise!
SOLDIER STAB RANGE: ~400 ⇒ ~325 (we're marking them as approximate values because they get very complicated)
TOWER BOMB DAMAGE: The tooltip values were incorrectly saying +0.6 ability power (it's actually 0.7).
Riot hates mages and will never give them the nerfs ( OR BUFFS ) they deserve. Probably they make them so strong JUST to have a reason to tear them down
What do you think they should be doing about them then? Mages/Double AP comps are so fucking strong right now because of how limited MR items are for legit builds. Locket doesn't necessarily provide enough MR to suffice, which only leaves banshees, spirit visage, and merc treads (Hexdrinker for AD and Abyssal for APs) and a 5/6 item AP carry will still tear through that easily. Banshees and Spirit Visage together isn't even a great build either, because then you're lacking armor for the ADC which will shred you instantly without it.
Last edited:
Ronaldo Forgot to quote your post
Instead of snowballing useless toplaners, junglers should be focused more on shutting down the midlaner. In the current meta the successful junglers are the one's who can easily 1v1 and set up ridiculous gank opportunities (Leesin, Jarvan IV, Rek'Sai) where other junglers simply can't. If it's true that a mage is giving your team more trouble than any other archetype that midlane can and has dreamt up then they're also open to these weaknesses.
It might be said that Azir and Ahri have easy escape mechanics. Azir much less so, he has a fixed cooldown on his one escape mechanic which takes 3 inputs to complete (set a soldier, move it away, E to it). Ahri, though, has been giving irresponsibly by Riot, a ridiculous repositioning tool ON TOP OF her massive mobility post 6. This is what I argue against. There is no reason for Ahri to have that and it pointedly made it so that Riot had to over nerf her IN DIFFERENT AREAS THAT MAKE HER LESS FUN TO PLAY just to keep her in line.
Mages also have a power curve that as a line would have a slope of something like 1/1 until snowballing. If someone is known to snowball (Ahri, Akali) you can take them early and make attempts to farm/roam/catch out more often than they do with someone like Leblanc or Zed. If someone is farm heavy you can try a poke and sustain game (Lux/Syndra v. Ziggs), or opt to kill them repeatedly (Leblanc/Zed v. Ziggs). If someone scales hard into late game (What we know Ahri does before Patch 5.3, Azir is top tier in this) then again you can abuse early game champions.
Speaking specifically Azir had problems with MASSIVE late game damage beyond that of an ADC and a mid game zoning phase. But any mobile champion with patience could easily out sustain his level 1-8 mana pool because he's actually very fragile without his soldiers and it takes until his first finished item to notice any significant damage. If he doesn't spam soldiers he doesn't benefit from early zoning and if he does he will eventually lose the uphill mana battle. So naturally they nerf his damage at all stages, his seige, AND HIS ZONE which was what was allowing him to reach his late game, so now he has less of BOTH.
Speaking specifically Ahri, she was given FAR too much utility. That much is obvious and I have no hesitation in admitting it. Giving her the movement speed removed any point of not having safety pre-6 and baiting her ultimate post - 6 then made no difference. The buff to damage on her W and Ulti (can't remember if ulti was actually buffed but I'm fairly sure it was) and the charm probably could have done enough, if not just forgetting one of the buffs altogether and just doing two of them for DFG compensation. But in response to her rise in strength, they beat her down possibly farther down than she was post removal DFG. By nerfing MANA COSTS instead of just removing what made her so ridiculously safe and "easy" to begin with and by nerfing two ranges (WE GET IT, THERE'S NOT MUCH SKILL IN HER W AND ULT BUT THAT'S HOW IT'S DESIGNED) was covering the distance between her DFG state and her buff state and then some. They also reduced the damage in the W to spite Ahri players it almost looks like (though we've seen it active in LCS and it does seem strong). So the real solution would be to revert the Q buff and reduce the damage of W and MAYBE ulti, to preserve her play but to nerf what made her a problem in the first place. I find it outrageously irresponsible to over nerf her now instead of just reverting one or two mistakes and making amends in other areas.
Onto items. It's no secret that mana regen has been nerfed for this season and chalice is no longer the dominating force it was from Season 2-4, only, manaless champions and energy champions were not nerfed. So now mages are even more so gated by their mana costs while Katarina and Zed get to dominate the role without effort. Whenever Riot looks at them they say "how can we nerf this champion without actually dropping their power? (Zed attack speed nerfs) Or, "How can we BUFF this champion?" (paraphrased from Katarina's almost changes in the 5.3 patch notes). So now we have Spectre's Cowl buffs to allow midlaners to get abused further by people they gank, possible lane opponents, and some jungler builds. In the early to mid game they will have even less of an effect.
Lastly, I want to say that Kassadin's nerf is a near perfect model of how to approach mages (though I'm not sure he himself can be called that, the philosophy still applies). They nerfed his q by 10 damage at every rank. That's something, but it's not out of control reflexive response to LCS domination and winrate spikes. It's careful, calculated, and precise --> How they should treat all their champions' balance.
Instead of snowballing useless toplaners, junglers should be focused more on shutting down the midlaner. In the current meta the successful junglers are the one's who can easily 1v1 and set up ridiculous gank opportunities (Leesin, Jarvan IV, Rek'Sai) where other junglers simply can't. If it's true that a mage is giving your team more trouble than any other archetype that midlane can and has dreamt up then they're also open to these weaknesses.
It might be said that Azir and Ahri have easy escape mechanics. Azir much less so, he has a fixed cooldown on his one escape mechanic which takes 3 inputs to complete (set a soldier, move it away, E to it). Ahri, though, has been giving irresponsibly by Riot, a ridiculous repositioning tool ON TOP OF her massive mobility post 6. This is what I argue against. There is no reason for Ahri to have that and it pointedly made it so that Riot had to over nerf her IN DIFFERENT AREAS THAT MAKE HER LESS FUN TO PLAY just to keep her in line.
Mages also have a power curve that as a line would have a slope of something like 1/1 until snowballing. If someone is known to snowball (Ahri, Akali) you can take them early and make attempts to farm/roam/catch out more often than they do with someone like Leblanc or Zed. If someone is farm heavy you can try a poke and sustain game (Lux/Syndra v. Ziggs), or opt to kill them repeatedly (Leblanc/Zed v. Ziggs). If someone scales hard into late game (What we know Ahri does before Patch 5.3, Azir is top tier in this) then again you can abuse early game champions.
Speaking specifically Azir had problems with MASSIVE late game damage beyond that of an ADC and a mid game zoning phase. But any mobile champion with patience could easily out sustain his level 1-8 mana pool because he's actually very fragile without his soldiers and it takes until his first finished item to notice any significant damage. If he doesn't spam soldiers he doesn't benefit from early zoning and if he does he will eventually lose the uphill mana battle. So naturally they nerf his damage at all stages, his seige, AND HIS ZONE which was what was allowing him to reach his late game, so now he has less of BOTH.
Speaking specifically Ahri, she was given FAR too much utility. That much is obvious and I have no hesitation in admitting it. Giving her the movement speed removed any point of not having safety pre-6 and baiting her ultimate post - 6 then made no difference. The buff to damage on her W and Ulti (can't remember if ulti was actually buffed but I'm fairly sure it was) and the charm probably could have done enough, if not just forgetting one of the buffs altogether and just doing two of them for DFG compensation. But in response to her rise in strength, they beat her down possibly farther down than she was post removal DFG. By nerfing MANA COSTS instead of just removing what made her so ridiculously safe and "easy" to begin with and by nerfing two ranges (WE GET IT, THERE'S NOT MUCH SKILL IN HER W AND ULT BUT THAT'S HOW IT'S DESIGNED) was covering the distance between her DFG state and her buff state and then some. They also reduced the damage in the W to spite Ahri players it almost looks like (though we've seen it active in LCS and it does seem strong). So the real solution would be to revert the Q buff and reduce the damage of W and MAYBE ulti, to preserve her play but to nerf what made her a problem in the first place. I find it outrageously irresponsible to over nerf her now instead of just reverting one or two mistakes and making amends in other areas.
Onto items. It's no secret that mana regen has been nerfed for this season and chalice is no longer the dominating force it was from Season 2-4, only, manaless champions and energy champions were not nerfed. So now mages are even more so gated by their mana costs while Katarina and Zed get to dominate the role without effort. Whenever Riot looks at them they say "how can we nerf this champion without actually dropping their power? (Zed attack speed nerfs) Or, "How can we BUFF this champion?" (paraphrased from Katarina's almost changes in the 5.3 patch notes). So now we have Spectre's Cowl buffs to allow midlaners to get abused further by people they gank, possible lane opponents, and some jungler builds. In the early to mid game they will have even less of an effect.
Lastly, I want to say that Kassadin's nerf is a near perfect model of how to approach mages (though I'm not sure he himself can be called that, the philosophy still applies). They nerfed his q by 10 damage at every rank. That's something, but it's not out of control reflexive response to LCS domination and winrate spikes. It's careful, calculated, and precise --> How they should treat all their champions' balance.
Last edited:
The spectres cowl buff was because it's annoying as fuck to play a melee tank top lane and watch as (Cassiopeia/Lissandra/Azir/Insert whatever safe ranged poke character) your health bar slowly vanishes with the only counterplay being (pick a different character or beg jungle for tank and farm while they're gone).
While I don't necessarily agree with ahri changes, they did it because they're trying to make her a poke mage and removing the w/r detection radius and damage helps to remove some of her upfront burst. That's definitely not why she's strong right now, though.
Chalice was nerf ed because it made mana gating much less of a thing while it was strong.
Other than that, yeah, riot kind of has trouble balancing mid. Ill say that champs like zed/other assassin's are supposed to be oppressive, but Katarina and her ilk aren't supposed to be and the fact that they're managing it is bad.
While I don't necessarily agree with ahri changes, they did it because they're trying to make her a poke mage and removing the w/r detection radius and damage helps to remove some of her upfront burst. That's definitely not why she's strong right now, though.
Chalice was nerf ed because it made mana gating much less of a thing while it was strong.
Other than that, yeah, riot kind of has trouble balancing mid. Ill say that champs like zed/other assassin's are supposed to be oppressive, but Katarina and her ilk aren't supposed to be and the fact that they're managing it is bad.
No early game for mages
No mid game for mages
nah that's against the very word "balance"
Assassins have different playstyles not different levels of overpoweredness
Assassin's have different playstyle and normally one of those playstyle is lanebully. Lategame karthus or anivia or lux or brand can deal way more damage late than most assassins, so if they could also win lanes easily (like most assassins) then they would be imbalanced. You don't pick renekton or garden or darius because of their stellar lategame, you pick them because they can easily shit on and snowball against their lane opponents and carry before they fall off. When you don't have that ramping down is when you have a problem, because you have a strong, easily snowballing character who never gets weak.
Haven't been playing league in a while since I'm busy with school, but I'll just post these random league images here ;3
My team is full honoured ;D but I'm a loner with no skin.
200 kill match, so intense yeh.
My laggy days.
Blue team is all grills ;O
Random supp match that I got double-kill first blood on k.
My team is full honoured ;D but I'm a loner with no skin.
200 kill match, so intense yeh.
My laggy days.
Blue team is all grills ;O
Random supp match that I got double-kill first blood on k.
- Status