katman's Buildbox discussion thread

Were all the rank downgrades and permission removals necessary?


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CloudBryan9

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I think the requirements are fine even without WE. But aren't you Builder? And didn't you submit one of your previous builds (that you probably used WE) to build it? Get on the server and see what other people are building for Builder. They're not building huge builds-- just good sized builds with sufficient details in them.
I actually built it by hand. With only 1 //fill stonebrick.

Also thanks for the Pics :) It now makes the builder line clear now.
 
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Razinao

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I'm sorry that you feel this way, but you're right--you don't need to prove to anyone that you can build. It's just a rank with a perk. And by saying "double the amount of effort", are you referring to getting your map approved by the respective server staff? Also, it seems like you loathe building in your local server because, and honestly, no one is stopping you from doing that because that's basically your decision to build there.
By double the effort I mean one: Convince you that I am able to use WorldEdit tools, and two: Make the map in question for another server. I loathe building on my local server because there is absolutely nothing but silence. No one to talk to. No sense of community despite the fact i'm making a map for the community.
 

Duffie

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I must admit, as someone who had previously had a Builder rank before the rank wipe and only really comes on to mess around with some building ideas, not having WE is a big downside for me.

I understand that getting rid of WE use for new players that may or may not use it irresponsibly may be quite a negative thing to get rid of... But, it doesn't help that getting to Builder isn't as easy as it used to be, either.

I'll probably go on Buildbox, but... I'll most likely be sticking to a singleplayer map for the time being, if this happens to stick.
 
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parquette

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I jus think our builds detail and depth should be decided by the players who are building them. I mean, we shouldn't have Cobblestone fences everywhere to make it more unrealistic. We shouldn't have so much depth just by looking at it we would get a headache. If you guys want realistic builds, I suggest less depth on the exterior, but still detail. I mean, take a look at this castle in real life:

http://www.shafe.co.uk/crystal/images/lshafe/Saumur_Castle.jpg

Does it look like it has loads of detail all over the walls? It is quite beautiful the way it is. If someone made it in minecraft, it would not need more depth, it wouldn't need more detail in the blank parts of the walls. It is perfect the way it is. Or what is someone was earning builder by making a castle that looked like this, would you say "more depth. needs more stuff on the walls"? Our players should just be left alone in how they want the depth to be, detail, and so on. And I don't think it should be a law for builders to be forced to smother their builders in endless depth JUST to get builder. Builder shouldn't have to be worked for that hard. After all, it is basically a player with more tools. It is not like something we have to work our backs for. Can we just leave the big builds the way our players want them to be? I mean a builder builds what he imagines, cant we leave them at that? We don't need instructions telling us how to build, we build from our own imagination. Our own building technique from other tries at builds in the past. We don't need instructions. It is just a way to make everyone the same. Listen, every person is unique, but if we where all the same, nothing would be special anymore. Like our builds, everyone is building with the same technique. It isn't special anymore. Actually, it is tireing to find the same building, but in a different shape. And I was building a castle, that was crammed with towers and houses in the movie I was basing it off of, and it was almost completely white. I am not going to alter this color, cause it is the correct way to go on the build, and I am not going to change it. And the walls didn't have that much depth, but hey, I don't care. I am a movie nerd, I like screen accuracy, I am sticking to it. Now I hope I haven't made enemies with the ops on this one. I just hope this gets changed.
 

nitasu987

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I have a n00b question since I haven't been on BB post 2.0 a lot.

Can pre-2.0 build be grounds for ranking up to builder post-2.0?
Given the post by rawr, that seems correct, please tell me if I'm wrong!!!
 

Psycho

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I jus think our builds detail and depth should be decided by the players who are building them.
You know what, you're right. Any build style -- realistic/unrealistic -- should be left up to the player that has made it. Like how your suggestion implies -- flat walls are realistic whilst walls with depth aren't. But how I see this is that including depth requires effort whilst flat walls require no effort at all. So, I'd rather see builds with depth, when necessary, instead of a build with flat walls.

I have a n00b question since I haven't been on BB post 2.0 a lot.

Can pre-2.0 build be grounds for ranking up to builder post-2.0?
Given the post by rawr, that seems correct, please tell me if I'm wrong!!!
I consider builds that were made pre-2.0, but I look at other conditions such as who you added to your plot, how many builds are on your plot, and if the styles are similar or not. But I still ask to see if that player can build something new because their style may end up being different from before.
 
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Guys for proof you can still make small but detailed builds try /warp bradbuild (in plotlands). It's brad6310's build for builder and although it's small I think it's better than my builder build.
 
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Hockeyfan1852

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Kind of going off what Razinao said the new system is not ideal for map builders as well as people that come on to test designs for smp etc. Back in classic players at least had the basic /z (cuboid) to work with to build maps and made floors and other tedious patterns easier to build. If you want to make a private server with worldedit as a plugin you have no one to ask for opinions on your build or if you want to build in a group that option is taken away from you. Players should be able to have some of the worldedit nodes available to them in the permissions. Just my opinion though.
 
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YouWould

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Kind of going off what Razinao said the new system is not ideal for map builders as well as people that come on to test designs for smp etc. Back in classic players at least had the basic /z (cuboid) to work with to build maps and made floors and other tedious patterns easier to build. If you want to make a private server with worldedit as a plugin you have no one to ask for opinions on your build or if you want to build in a group that option is taken away from you. Players should be able to have some of the worldedit nodes available to them in the permissions. Just my opinion though.
That makes sense, like only giving players //fill or //set so that they really cant grief horridly (They still could, but it would be far less laggy than spawning like 1000000 balls of sand in 10 seconds)
 
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parquette

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Answer to Rawrs post. I think that if the player made the castle I showed above, you know, no WE, not a lot of depth along the walls, Just like the one in the picture, it should have enough effort to just make the thing. If it is that big, that many buildings, just the same as the pic, that should be a sign that they used a lot of effort. Heck, on my first and ever build on BB, I had no W.E, or anything like that. I had old simple, plain hand to work with. I was building the build, just the way I saw it in a picture of the actual thing I was building. And people are like "too much quartz" or "need block variation". Well, in the pic, the thing was white, so I am making it white. No difference. Not changing accuracy. Does that mean if we're building an actual landmark, we should change it to depth everywhere along the walls so that it doesn't look like the thing we had in mind from the first get-go? And Rawr, I do understand your thoughts on depth. I in fact agree with your thoughts on effort to make the build awesome, but every build is unique, and they shouldn't look like everybody else's builds. Man this sounds a lot like the Matrix lol.
 

Nillbugwtw

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Good news, everybody!:dance:sorry i cant stop using this gif
Things are in the works, and will be on the server soon - one as soon as today/tomorrow, the other likely coming early-mid August. The first, and more pressing one will address concerns voiced in this thread, while the other will deal with other various rank enhancements.

In other words...
Stay tuned!
 

Alkatraz

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I’m looking forward to seeing what the upcoming changes are to BuildBox, and this is really isn’t meant as a “hurry up” post.
I thought I would chuck in my two pence (us Brits don’t use cents). I see the logic in removing the powerful WorldEdit commands from people joining the first time, as I imagine it can cause a lot of grief to clean up if not done in their plot, or potential crashes if done in the plot world. As such I fully support making WorldEdit Builder+

Similarly, I understand that the standard of Builder ranks do tend to fall over time, and so it may be desirable to rank reset. But as others have brought up in this thread, the problem with doing this and simultaneously raising the requirements to achieve Builder is that it alienates the people who primarily play on the other Blocktopia servers.
Whether they wish to test out a design for a DoD build, or build a beautiful map for one of the other servers it’ll often be of a larger scale, requiring terraforming of the area or large buildings. Now of course these things can be done by hand without the WE commands but it just adds time and hassle, particularly if you are just going to recreate it by hand in DoD.

A reasonable response to this is: “Why not just load up a single player world with WorldEdit commands?”
For me, this is not ideal as I tend to build a number of things with KingSam, which invalidates anything built on BuildBox as it’s not an independent build.
In fact, a lot of people like to make maps in teams, however in order to get Builder currently, you need to build independently, co-operative builds are not taken into account.

“Well, how about setting up a simple server with WorldEdit? That way you can collaboratively build and have WorldEdit commands.”
Well yes, I could, but it seems an awful lot of effort for a build particularly if it’s a map for a Blocktopia server. Would it not be logical to build it in the Blocktopia community build server? Where you can easily get feedback from people who perhaps play on the AoD/RoF/Infection server more than you, and get artistic feedback from BuildBox members.

The following may seem like a bit of a side note, but bear with me. I had an issue with A+T when it was first released, “what’s the point in a adventure map server? Surely I can just download a map and play it myself” I thought. But then I actually tried doing it, and frankly, it was way too much hassle, particularly if I wanted to play with other people. So I came round to the server after that, it has it’s place and it’s nice if you want to play an adventure map, you still feel part of the community if you’re doing a solo map, and can go through them with others easily. Why should BuildBox be so different?

I personally am not sure whether the first rank should be about your building ability, should it not be more about your trustworthiness?
If there is to be a rank between this TrustworthyPlayer rank and Adv. Builder, then so be it. However, if so, I question whether it should only be Operators judging the quality of the builds. BuildBox operators are moderators, whilst they are OFTEN promoted from the Adv. Builders, it is not a requirement to be an amazing builder. Therefore shouldn’t Adv. Builders as the top builders also be able to say “Yes, you are a good builder, and you’re climbing your way to Adv. Builder, have an improved rank.” Of course, some Adv. Builders may wish to just build and not be pestered, and that’s fine.

I’m not trying to step on any toes with this post, but I hope people can get some use out of my thoughts and feedback.
 

Psycho

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I personally am not sure whether the first rank should be about your building ability, should it not be more about your trustworthiness?
If there is to be a rank between this TrustworthyPlayer rank and Adv. Builder, then so be it. However, if so, I question whether it should only be Operators judging the quality of the builds. BuildBox operators are moderators, whilst they are OFTEN promoted from the Adv. Builders, it is not a requirement to be an amazing builder. Therefore shouldn’t Adv. Builders as the top builders also be able to say “Yes, you are a good builder, and you’re climbing your way to Adv. Builder, have an improved rank.” Of course, some Adv. Builders may wish to just build and not be pestered, and that’s fine.
I don't think that I've mentioned trustworthiness before, but now that you mention it, I do look into it by how often I've seen the player, their ontime, and if they're mature. If there's a new player who has a nice build, then I'd tell them to continue building, to make sure that their building ability isn't a fluke and to see how they act in the server.

Regarding your statement about AdvBuilders-- I believe that what you're implying is that AdvBuilders should be able to rank Players up too? Awhile back, I believe that AdvBuilders USED to be able to rank people up, but I think they just got their perms taken away or they were just told not to rank anyone. But oftentimes, when someone is reviewing a player's build, you will sometimes get other ranks jumping in to see the person's build and give feedback. So, it's not like we're denying them the right to review players, because they can do it if they choose to.

As much as we appreciate feedback/critiques from other Players/Builders/AdvBuilders when we're reviewing someone's build, I think that it would be best to leave staff to rank players up because it'll be easier to know who's ranking who up.
 

parquette

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I just think the only problem with the whole issue is that pretty soon, builders ranks will have to have more standards that are worse then ever. I don't want to see people have to work their backs off to get builder. It just seems silly to have the standards as tough as adv builds. The only thing I add to the update is getting rid of all the builders that have been should we say where doing nothing but making spheres with WE for no aperant reason. It would save a lot of hassle. A lot of people wouldn't be mad (unless your nor including the others who have made random spheres). A lot of people would be happy and this thread wouldn't have come up.
 

Nillbugwtw

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I just think the only problem with the whole issue is that pretty soon, builders ranks will have to have more standards that are worse then ever.
Sorry, why? I'm not sure anyone ever suggested raising the standards for Builder higher than they are currently. Builder standards are NOWHERE NEAR Advanced Builder standards, nor will I or any of my staff raise Builder standards to that level.
 
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parquette

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Ahhh ok. I too am excited for the new update (I know, I too am a builder but what the heck new ranks are always cool). So this new rank thing will be in between player and builder is that correct Nill?
 
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YouWould

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I secretly know what all is happening. No spoilers to anyone, in part because I don't 100% understand what's happening, but I know the new rank name.
 

Nillbugwtw

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I beg it's Boxer.
Nillder.

Build a statue of me.


Instant promo.






Anyway, update: Rank updates are still coming along, going to clump them into one update instead of two. There are bumps in the road slowing them down, but hey, what's a Blocktopia Buildbox update with a few delays? I'm having to take a few personal days off but hope to have updates out ASAP.